Marvel 75th Anniversary Celebration

[Leoparis]

character watches

This issue has not been analysed yet but it's been discussed in Chronology: Birth of the Fantastic Four to Birth of the Avengers.

First story "Anniversary" James Robinson and Chris Samnee
Synopsis: On the anniversary of the FF flight in the flashback in FF 1, Ben Urich writes a text piece "where were you on that day?" illustrated by various vignettes of Marvel characters.
The conceit of the story is very similar to Marvel Saga 1. There are numerous problems with the idea, in particular with Nick Fury, Dr Strange, Iron Fist and even with Bruce Banner. Since these appearances are connected to a text piece by Ben Urich and his research is shown on the top panel of the last page, I'm going to say that those appearances reflect what he thinks these characters were doing on that day rather than what actually happened.

Remarks: Pepper Potts and Happy Hogan were not supporting characters yet in Iron Man but this occurs while Yinsen is still alive.
There are contradictory first meetings between Betty and Bruce, either when he arrived at the base either on the day of the test.
The Nick Fury dialogue here doesn't segue well into Strange Tales 135. There might have been up to two SHIELD organizations before the modern age. The vague dialog could be reinterpreted in various ways. Can be due to Urich's lack of knowledge of earlier SHIELD.
If Eskimos find the frozen Cap so shortly before he's found by the Avengers, their cult was rather short-term, contradicting another story of an Eskimo I read somewhere but cannot place at the moment.
Others have pointed at a problem in Carol Danvers chronology: she should be in intelligence by this time.
Scott, Bobby and Hank? are already recruited by Xavier. Hank is not named and the bulky figure behind Bobby could presumably be someone else. Only Scott and Bobby are mentioned as X-Men. It's odd that Bobby gets introduced to the estate if Hank is also there. Possibly another previously unrevealed student was recruited between Scott and Bobby but I doubt a writer will ever pick up that discrepancy. "Hank" is very likely an artistic error. Note also Angel flies (half-)nude on his own.
Doom seems to be conquering Latveria, seems late to me but he could be merely suppressing a revolt or a coup.
Cage in prison, unsure how long he was incarcerated.
Wolverine naked in the wild with metal claws. Probably could be any time. Maybe until he enjoyed the comfort of unstable molecules, he preferred no clothes.
Daniel Rand ready to face Shou-Lao (way too early).
Ororo in Africa with her headpiece, closer in appearance to GSSX 1 than to the chronologically next one in Hidden Years?
Dr Strange just shown his future sanctum by an estate agent. Can be a mistake from Urich due to Strange casting a spell that he's a contemporary neighbour. People never seem to realize how old Strange is.

Based on this and since Urich's research is bound to have mistakes, I do not index the mentioned characters, only Urich.

"Captain America Foils the Traitor's revenge" by Bruce Timm adapted from the text story by Stan Lee in Captain America Comics 3.
This one goes with Captain America Comics 3. I expect the text pieces to have been done last and so I place it accordingly.

Alias Investigation by Bendis and Gaydos
Synopsis: A centenarian woman asks Jessica to find a fireman she met during the first public appearance of the Human Torch in 1939.
Also features Maria Hill, Luke Cage and Danielle. The name of the fireman is David Walker.
The Human Torch appearance is the same as on page 4 of Marvel Comics 1. So fireman David Walker must be one of the firemen who arrive on the scene page 5. There are no women on the scene on the original story.

"That Parker Boy" by Tom DeFalco and Stan Goldberg
The Coffee Bean gang (Harry, Flash, MJ, Gwen and Parker), Kingpin
Synopsis: Parker blows his friends off due to an emergency.
Flash is in civilian clothes. The Kingpin's presence does not preclude this from taking place before ASM 50 as Parker does not refer to him by name, "I suspect the mastermind behind this scheme but I have no real proof." In particular the lack of military references for Flash could make it convenient to place before he enrolls. Analysed here.

Wolverine by Len Wein and Paul Gulacy
Wolverine in blue/yellow costume in Australia (says he's been there before). Attacked by Sabretooth on his birthday.
Just based on the two creators involved, the story could take place from 1974 to 2014.
The X-Men lineup is shown to be Cyclops, Banshee, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler so this is between 1975 and 1979.
Jean Grey is shown as Phoenix in green costume so after X 101.
Xavier does not think Wolverine is dead so this is not during their globetrotting adventures (111-121) nor afterward since Xavier only returns from the Shi'ar in X 129, where there is a break of a few days.
Logan mentions the last time he fought the Hulk was in Canada.
This takes place most likely in the break in X 129--although Logan has met Mariko by then--or between the break in X 101 and 111, depending on when Logan's birthday would fall. Sabretooth attacks Wolverine once a year. There is an attack in CX 10/2 taking place circa X 94 (Aug 75). So on the rate of four years to a year, X 129 (Jan 80) seems right for the attack one year later.

BUCKY/JAMES BUCHANAN BARNES JR
CAC 3/3
*M/75A /2 add here
CAC 4

CAGE, DANIELLE
[MA2 13]
*M/75A /3 add here
[CAMA 2]

CAGE, LUKE
[MA2 14]
*M/75A /3 add here
[CAMA 1]

CAPTAIN AMERICA/STEVE ROGERS
CAC 3/3
*M/75A /2 add here
CAC 4

JONES, JESSICA
[MA2 14]
*M/75A /3 add here
[CAMA 2]

HILL, MARIA
[DL5 1]
*M/75A /3 add here
[SA3 9]

KINGPIN/WILSON FISK
DD2 13 (13)-FB
*M/75A /4 add here
{ASM 50}

OSBORN, HARRY
ASM 46
*M/75A /4 add here
ASM 47 (1 - 10:1)

SABRETOOTH/VICTOR CREED
M/S-H3 10/3
*M/75A /5 add here
PM&IF 66

SPIDER-MAN/PETER PARKER
ASM 46
*M/75A /4 add here
M/HB

STACY, GWENDOLYNE MAXINE "GWEN"
ASM 46
*M/75A /4 add here
M/HB

THOMPSON, FLASH
ASM 46
*M/75A /4 add here
ASM 47 (1 - 10:1)

URICH, BEN
[GSSM2 1]
*M/75A add here
[SW5 5]

*WALKER, DAVID add entry
*MC 1
*M/75A /3

WATSON, MARY JANE
ASM 46
*M/75A /4 add here
M/HB

WOLVERINE/LOGAN
X 129 (1 - 6)
*M/75A /5 add here
CX 39/2

[wolframbane]

If Eskimos find the frozen Cap so shortly before he's found by the Avengers, their cult was rather short-term, contradicting another story of an Eskimo I read somewhere but cannot place at the moment.

You may be thinking of the novel Avengers: The Man Who Stole Tomorrow. Aningan Kenojuak was confirmed canon with his mention in Encyclopaedia Mythologica: Innua.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/kenojuakaningan.htm

Doom seems to be conquering Latveria, seems late to me but he could be merely suppressing a revolt or a coup.

Doom was depicted wearing his royal green robes, a sign of office, that he took from King Vladimir after he killed him (Books of Doom #6). For this reason, Before the FF: Reed Richards #1-3 is also probably after he conquers Latveria.

[StrayLamb]

Wolverine by Len Wein and Paul Gulacy
Wolverine in blue/yellow costume in Australia (says he's been there before). Attacked by Sabretooth on his birthday.
Just based on the two creators involved, the story could take place from 1974 to 2014.
The X-Men lineup is shown to be Cyclops, Banshee, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler so this is between 1975 and 1979.
Jean Grey is shown as Phoenix in green costume so after X 101.
Xavier does not think Wolverine is dead so this is not during their globetrotting adventures (111-121) nor afterward since Xavier only returns from the Shi'ar in X 129, where there is a break of a few days.
Logan mentions the last time he fought the Hulk was in Canada.
This takes place most likely in the break in X 129--although Logan has met Mariko by then--or between the break in X 101 and 111, depending on when Logan's birthday would fall.

In WX3 15-16, Domino says Logan's birthday is the night they set the clocks back an hour, which for that year was November 5, but Col_Fury has that issue placed in the summer, so it's still up in the air. Every year Sabretooth finds Logan on his birthday for a knock-down drag-out fight, so finding a few more of those may help pin it down (or show it to be whenever the writers say it is).

[wolframbane]

If it helps, Wolverine actually has two acknowledged birthdays. There is the one he believed he has that Sabretooth stalks him on. Then there is his true birthdate, discovered by Melita Garner, in Wolverine Vol 4 #5.1, 2011.

[Leoparis]

If Eskimos find the frozen Cap so shortly before he's found by the Avengers, their cult was rather short-term, contradicting another story of an Eskimo I read somewhere but cannot place at the moment.

You may be thinking of the novel Avengers: The Man Who Stole Tomorrow. Aningan Kenojuak was confirmed canon with his mention in Encyclopaedia Mythologica: Innua.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/kenojuakaningan.htm

I did not know that novel but in Age of Heroes 4/2, in a story set in Fairbanks, Alaska, the narrator, named Auckaneck, who is a great-grandfather to a teen or preteen girl, says he found Cap in ice when he was a boy. The story is contemporary with comics of the time.

Later while still a young man, he's saved by Sub-Mariner. So he had time to age considerably from unmarried youth to grandfather or great-grandfather.

The picture in 75th Anniversary showing the canoe with three people is a perfect match with Age of Heroes 4/2. Alaska is an odd setting as if the writer was influenced by the novel.

[wolframbane]

For events in the novel, around page 25
https://issuu.com/catersondamon/docs/19 ... s_10_-_ave

[wolframbane]

I did not know that novel but in Age of Heroes 4/2, in a story set in Fairbanks, Alaska, the narrator, named Auckaneck, who is a great-grandfather to a teen or preteen girl, says he found Cap in ice when he was a boy. The story is contemporary with comics of the time.

Later while still a young man, he's saved by Sub-Mariner. So he had time to age considerably from unmarried youth to grandfather or great-grandfather.

The picture in 75th Anniversary showing the canoe with three people is a perfect match with Age of Heroes 4/2. Alaska is an odd setting as if the writer was influenced by the novel.

The age discrepency for Auckaneck may not necessarily be an issue. During the time the frozen form of Cap was discovered, it was probably summer as it coincided with the launch of the Marvel-1 (Marvel 75th Anniversary Celebration), and several months passed before the Avengers formed, Namor rescued Auckaneck and Cap revived. The Bantu (Avengers: The Man Who Stole Tomorrow) Eskimo/Inuit tribe were still a traditional hunter and fisher indigineous people, who still worshiped the Innua or Inuit gods (Encyclopaedia Mythologica) but the younger generations tended to be more "modernized" with western culture and worship the Christian God (Age of Heroes #4/2). The fishing boat carrying Auckaneck, Tikaani (Age of Heroes #4/2) and shaman Aningan Kenojuak (Avengers: The Man Who Stole Tomorrow) found the frozen Cap. Bringing his back to the village, Aningan Kenojuak (Avengers: The Man Who Stole Tomorrow) and Taqtu'll (Age of Heroes #4/2) considered him a god, and some worshipped Cap as a god but others were skeptical.

Auckaneck may have appeared to be a young hunter, but to account for his age, I feel that despite referring to himself and Tikaani as "two stupid young men," he was actually much older, his mid fifties at least, but a lifetime of enduring the northern hardships left him with a strong vitality and appearance despite his actual age. He already had an child (son or daughter) and an adult grandson Cikuq (aka Chris), who had left for the city, with a great-granddaughter Tiffany either very young or soon to be born. He was probably widowed or divorced, but was interested in a much younger woman Sura. After he almost drowned in the Arctic waters, he married Sura, but perhaps due to health complications from his near hypothermic drowning, his age soon caught up to him, and within a little over a decade, about the time Cap was revealed alive after Civil War and when Tiffany was a young teen, Auckaneck appeared elderly. After his accident, he married Sura, and followed Cikuq to the city, and Tiffany considered Sura her great grandmother.

The location of the Bantu village and where Cap was found is in question. Avengers #4 states Namor found them on the frozen lands of the North Sea, which is around Europe, but may have actually meant "the north sea" of North America, or the Arctic Ocean. The comic tradition of writing everything in capitals can cause this misunderstanding. Cap also said he went down near Newfoundland. And when Namor sent the ice block adrift again, the warm waters of the Gulf Stream thawed him out. However Avengers: The Man Who Stole Tomorrow places the Bantu village (later modernized into the town of Bantu Junction) in Alaska, between the Koyakuk River (Northwestern Alaska) and the Talkeetnas Mountains (Southern Alaska). Age of Heroes #4/2 later has Auckaneck living in Fairbanks, Alaska, but this is not necessarily the same location that the Bantu village was at. Whereas I can accept the idea of "Iced Cap" going down near Newfoundland, and gradually over decades floating northwest across the Arctic Ocean to be found by the Bantu in Alaska, I find it difficult to believe that when Namor threw Cap back into the sea, only for him to drift all the way back to the Atlantic where the Gulf Stream thawed him out in time for the Avengers to find him in no more than a few days maximum.

[Leoparis]

M/ 75th/ 5 would need to take place somewhere between X 101 and X 111. Banshee does not return with the X-Men in X 129.

I would also narrow that down to between X 109 and X 111. Seems to be the area with the most wiggle room for Wolverine to head to Australia, accounting for all the members in the hallucination.

Narrowing that down, I would place it between GirlC2 1/6 and CX 17/2.

Banshee does not actually appear in the Wolverine story. Wolverine only sees illusions from the dreamtime, including Hulk, which is from his past. Wolverine might still think of Banshee when he thinks X-Men. Especially as this is the first time in Australia since he joined the team per his internal monologue. The adamantium operation he hallucinates is also from his past.

I am also driven by the consideration to place this on the next anniversary after CX 10/2 per Sabretooth's comment.

[Jason Doty]

In his hallucination, he is surprised to see the X-Men which includes Banshee, but he is not due to return for a couple of days. To me this would suggest the current lineup and not a remembrance. In fact he does not believe the Hulk hallucination is from the past, but a current event which is going to have a different outcome, this time around.

Trying to assign, real time anniversary years of a birthday, to which both characters (Wolverine and Sabretooth) have had countless memory wipes and such, seems to me to be the least important piece of evidence, not to mention a sliding timeline. While it is nice when things do line-up.

[Leoparis]

In his hallucination, he is surprised to see the X-Men which includes Banshee, but he is not due to return for a couple of days. To me this would suggest the current lineup and not a remembrance. In fact he does not believe the Hulk hallucination is from the past, but a current event which is going to have a different outcome, this time around.

Trying to assign, real time anniversary years of a birthday, to which both characters (Wolverine and Sabretooth) have had countless memory wipes and such, seems to me to be the least important piece of evidence, not to mention a sliding timeline. While it is nice when things do line-up.

He also mentions he joined the X-Men but with a X 110 placement that is kind of late. Banshee could appear as a member of the X-Men he joined--even if he recently left the team--rather than as a member expecting his return. I figure that Len Wein wanted to write the X-Men close to the time he was writing them but Gulacy drew Jean in her Phoenix costume, thus pushing forth the appearance. With Wolverine hallucinating events from his past we know that these hallucinations are not necessarily current. He's also confused enough that he doesn't know if Hulk and Sabretooth are real.

So it's quite open. I figured right from the beginning that middle of X 101, circa 110 and X 129 had equal chances. Given that a lesser piece of evidence can easily tip the scales.

And Wolverine hasn't had memory wipes since he joined the X-Men. And if Sabretooth had some, they nevertheless both agree CX 10/2 and M/75TH are Logan's birthday.

[Jason Doty]

We are going to have to disagree on the X 129 placement. The fact that he believes the Hulk is real, and the X-Men are real at first, would mean that Banshee would be part of the team at the time. Also those Classic X-Men issues in-between X 110 and 111 also deal with the Jean-Cyclops-Wolverine triangle, which was more prevalent of an issue in earlier stories. This still seems to be at the forefront of his thoughts and becomes upset, in this story, with Jean being an illusion. I'm going to have to stick with my original placement.