Chronology: Birth of Franklin Richards to Birth of the Defenders

[StrayLamb]

Updates in BOLD from recent forum posts.

[robfj]

Is there any reason why you have Silver Surfer #4 between Avengers #59 and #60 when Thor's chronology has it between Av#52 and #58? I can't see any particular reason to choose 1 over the other.

We seem to have altered the relationship between Thor and the Avengers around this area in the Official Index anyway. But the Thor Index for #159 does have SS#4 immediately before Av#58.

[robfj]

I'll now dig myself out of the hole I've just fallen into. After reading some of the previous comments on this thread I've followed a link back to a Hulk-based discussion on the position of SS#4 where the very change I've been querying has been approved (but presumably not yet implemented in the chronologies).

[robfj]

However there's another variation from the existing chronologies that I still can't find an explanation for. And this 1 worries me more.

The following section is highlighted in bold indicating it's all been changed:-
Incredible Hulk 109 (1-9)
Hulk vs Fin Fang Foom 1
Incredible Hulk 109 (10-20)
Incredible Hulk 110-113
Captain America 111-112
Incredible Hulk 114-115
Captain America 113 (1 - 18)
Avengers 106 (4 - 7)-FB
Avengers 106 (12 - 14)-FB
Avengers 107 (4 - 13)-FB
Avengers 107 (19 - 20:2)-FB
Captain America 113 (19 - 20)
Iron Man 9-14
Captain Marvel 11 (13 - 20)
Captain Marvel 12-16 [Early March]

I'm guessing that the components have all been assembled together from scattered places. The significant aspect for me is that they are all now after Avengers #63.

1 of them is Captain Marvel #12 which has Black Widow working for SHIELD being captured by an android creator (ie Mad Thinker). But that should happen before she contacts the Avengers in Av#63 to let them know she's a prisoner of him and Egghead & Puppet Master.

CM#14 *is* correctly after Av#63 between Sub-Mariner #14 and Av#64. But these issues are all part of a continuous plot running though CM#12, Av#63, SubM#14, CM#14, Av#64. There isn't a gap between the Av issues, but I could concede that Black Widow could have been captured in CM#12 a while before. (The video call from Nick Fury says she's only just gone missing but that call was faked.) However from Captain Marvel's point of view CM#12-14 are also continuous.

So Av#63, SubM#14 and Av#64 (which probably should drag #65 with it) need to be brought into the fold with CM#12-14.


There's also another problem which you may already have catered for. The whole of Captain America #113 is placed after Av#63. But the current chronologies for Black Panther, Hawkeye and Vision have them in the main 1st part of that issue before Av#61. (This also applies to the Av#106-FB within CA#113.) I'd guess that these Avengers' apps could also be moved in their chronologies.

[StrayLamb]

Is there any reason why you have Silver Surfer #4 between Avengers #59 and #60 when Thor's chronology has it between Av#52 and #58? I can't see any particular reason to choose 1 over the other.

We seem to have altered the relationship between Thor and the Avengers around this area in the Official Index anyway. But the Thor Index for #159 does have SS#4 immediately before Av#58.

I'll now dig myself out of the hole I've just fallen into. After reading some of the previous comments on this thread I've followed a link back to a Hulk-based discussion on the position of SS#4 where the very change I've been querying has been approved (but presumably not yet implemented in the chronologies).

Yep, i think we ended up deciding to keep SS 4 in the same position for Thor, but to turn it into a FB, although that doesn't appear to have been implemented in the listings, and place the SS 4 during A 60, where it's supposed to take place.

However there's another variation from the existing chronologies that I still can't find an explanation for. And this 1 worries me more.

The following section is highlighted in bold indicating it's all been changed:-
Incredible Hulk 109 (1-9)
Hulk vs Fin Fang Foom 1
Incredible Hulk 109 (10-20)
Incredible Hulk 110-113
Captain America 111-112
Incredible Hulk 114-115
Captain America 113 (1 - 18)
Avengers 106 (4 - 7)-FB
Avengers 106 (12 - 14)-FB
Avengers 107 (4 - 13)-FB
Avengers 107 (19 - 20:2)-FB
Captain America 113 (19 - 20)
Iron Man 9-14
Captain Marvel 11 (13 - 20)
Captain Marvel 12-16 [Early March]

I'm guessing that the components have all been assembled together from scattered places. The significant aspect for me is that they are all now after Avengers #63.

1 of them is Captain Marvel #12 which has Black Widow working for SHIELD being captured by an android creator (ie Mad Thinker). But that should happen before she contacts the Avengers in Av#63 to let them know she's a prisoner of him and Egghead & Puppet Master.

CM#14 *is* correctly after Av#63 between Sub-Mariner #14 and Av#64. But these issues are all part of a continuous plot running though CM#12, Av#63, SubM#14, CM#14, Av#64. There isn't a gap between the Av issues, but I could concede that Black Widow could have been captured in CM#12 a while before. (The video call from Nick Fury says she's only just gone missing but that call was faked.) However from Captain Marvel's point of view CM#12-14 are also continuous.

So Av#63, SubM#14 and Av#64 (which probably should drag #65 with it) need to be brought into the fold with CM#12-14.

Yep, that managed to get mucked up.

How does this look?

---
Iron Man 9-13
Fantastic Four 88 (1-3:3)
Silver Surfer 5 (1-9)
Fantastic Four 88 (3:4-10)
Silver Surfer 5 (10-19:3)
Fantastic Four 88 (11-20)
Captain Marvel 11 (13 - 20)
Captain Marvel 12
Iron Man 14
Captain Marvel 13 [February or Early March]
Avengers 63 [February or Early March]
Sub-Mariner 14
Captain Marvel 14 (1 - 15)
Avengers 64-65
Captain Marvel 14 (16 - 20)
Captain Marvel 15-16
---

There's also another problem which you may already have catered for. The whole of Captain America #113 is placed after Av#63. But the current chronologies for Black Panther, Hawkeye and Vision have them in the main 1st part of that issue before Av#61. (This also applies to the Av#106-FB within CA#113.) I'd guess that these Avengers' apps could also be moved in their chronologies.

I can work with that. Thanks robfj. Your input is always welcome. Updates implemented.

[Troutlaw]

Silver Surfer 8-9 is here twice.
The Watcher portion of Silver Surfer 1-7 is missing.
Tower of Shadows 5/1 is missing.

[StrayLamb]

Silver Surfer 8-9 is here twice.

Fixed, thanks!

The Watcher portion of Silver Surfer 1-7 is missing.

Not sure what to do about those, if anything. The Watcher is telling stories about things that have already happened.

Tower of Shadows 5/1 is missing.

There's no frame of reference for this story, but i've added it in during the early Spring, which is when the issue was published.

[StrayLamb]

A few more updates in BOLD.