Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by Leoparis »

Some additions from Death of Dr Strange event.

Strange Tales 127/1
Strange Tales 125/2-126/2
Death of Dr Strange 2-5
Strange Tales 127/2
Strange Academy Present Death of Dr Strange-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 19

And Captain America: Hail Hydra 2:

Tales to Astonish 58/1
Tales to Astonish 58/2
Tales of Suspense 56
Tales of Suspense 56/2
Captain America: Hail Hydra 2
Daredevil 3
Avengers 7

And Avengers:

Tales of Suspense 53/3
Marvel 1 third story Avengers Hulk
Avengers 5 (3:4-23)
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by StrayLamb »

Updates in BOLD from recent forum posts.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:10 am Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:

Iron Man: The Iron Age 1
Tales of Suspense 45 (1 - 7:2)
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (3:10)-FB
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (1)
Tales of Suspense 45 (7:3 - 7:5)
Iron Man: The Iron Age 2 (1 - 3:2)
Tales of Suspense 45 (7:3 - 12:5)
Iron Man: The Iron Age 2 (3:3 - 6)
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (2:4 - 2:5)-FB
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (3:8)-FB
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (1 - 14)
Iron Man: The Iron Age 2 (7 - 14)
The last two Tales of Suspense 45 overlap and one or two segments are missing.
The breakdown of this issue should be:

Tales of Suspense 45 (1 - 7:2): Tony Stark hires Happy Hogan who just saved his life.
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (3:10)-FB
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (1)
Tales of Suspense 45 (7:3 - 7:5): Several days later, Stark takes Hogan to his plant.
Iron Man: The Iron Age 2 (1 - 3:2): Both enter Stark's office.
Tales of Suspense 45 (7:5 - 8): Stark introduces Pepper to Happy.
Iron Man: The Iron Age 2 (3:3 - 6): (retake on scene above with the addition of discussion between Pepper and Happy.
Tales of Suspense 45 (9 - 12:5): Stark fires Shapanka who's been snooping in his vault.
Iron Man: The Iron Age 2 (7 - 14): Hogan arrives on that scene.

IMHO, two missing segments should follow. Since they span over several weeks, I split them in those two lines, but you can also merge them in one despite the time gap in between. They could be inserted right after the above scenes or where you see fit.
Tales of Suspense 45 (12:6-13:6): Weeks later, Shapanka does research on freezing living beings.
Tales of Suspense 45 (13:7-18): A week later, Jack Frost goes on a crime spree for several days, then attacks Stark Industries.

Tales to Astonish 47 (7 - 13:3)-FB
Tales of Suspense 46
Marvel Comics Presents 58/4 [Iron Man]
Tales to Astonish 47 (13:4 - 13:7)-FB
Neither segments from Tales to Astonish 47 are flashbacks. The first occurs months after Trago is back and faces Ant-Man and the Wasp. The second, several weeks later when Hank and Janet see him perform in a bistro.
Strange Tales 119/2
Daredevil 1 (9:3 - 12:4)
Avengers Classic 3/2
While I understand that a good part of the flashback scenes in Daredevil 1 predates Fantastic Four 1, I don't understand why you would start with Daredevil 1 (9:3 - 12:4). I think that segment (7:3-9:2) should be contiguous because Matt is about the same age or at least, there is no apparent long gap between panels 9:2 and 9:3. Furthermore, from 8:4 to 9:4 is a continuous segment where Matt's father gets home while his son has his accident. MCP list is even more fragmented because several other titles have retakes of Daredevil's origin.

Also, there should be a gap right before 10:3 where Matt is accepted in college and meets Foggy. Likewise, there should be some time elapsed before 11:6 and 13:6. Battling Murdock's death most likely took some time after Matt's admission to college because his boxing career had the time to rise back.

However this may be pointless, because given the time it would take Matt to complete Law school after his father's death and open his legal practice approximately 2 years after FF 1, I' pretty sure that the whole flashback segment before 13:5 predates FF 1. A Master's degree takes way more than 2 years after college, right?
Tales to Astonish 51/3
Tales to Astonish 52-53
Tales to Astonish 53/2
Tales to Astonish 52/2 is not listed. I would place it between Tales to Astonish 52 and Tales to Astonish 53 because both these stories are unrelated and there can be a gap between.
Amazing Spider-Man 15 (3:4 - 22) ~ Sensational Spider-Man ’96 1 (19:7 - 45)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 17
Untold Tales of Spider-Man: Strange Encounter
Amazing Spider-Man 16
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 18
Amazing Spider-Man Annual 1
Journey Into Mystery 109 (1 - 12:4)
X-Men Origins: Jean Grey 1 (19 - 24:3)
Journey Into Mystery 109 (12:5 - 14:3)
Avengers 16 (10:3)-FB
X-Men 37 (15:6)-FB
Journey Into Mystery 109 (14:4 - 18)
X-Men Origins: Jean Grey 1 (24:4 - 30)
Tales of Suspense 57/2
Tales of Suspense 57-58
Tales of Suspense 58/2
Tales of Suspense 57-58 occurs between Amazing Spider-Man 15, where Kraven and the Chameleon are exiled, and Amazing Spider-Man Annual 1 where they are in America and join the Sinister Six. TOS 58 contains the scene where they smuggle back in the USA.
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (7:3 - 13:4)
Dark Reign: Mister Negative 3 (3:1)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (13:5 - 21)
Avengers 4 (16 - 23)
Daredevil 1 (1 - 4:2)
Daredevil 1 (14:3 - 22)
Daredevil 617 (14:2 - 15)-FB
Avengers Classic 4/2
Amazing Spider-Man 11
Amazing Spider-Man 12 (1 - 2)
Amazing Spider-Man 11 is listed twice. I would keep the first one that you split because Amazing Spider-Man 12 occurs one day after.
Tales to Astonish 54
Tales to Astonish 54/3
Tales to Astonish 55
Tales to Astonish 55/2
Tales to Astonish 56/2
Tales to Astonish 56 is not listed.
Strange Tales 127/1
Strange Tales 125/2-126/2
Death of Dr Strange 2-5
Strange Tales 127/2
Strange Academy Present Death of Dr Strange-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 19
I would move Strange Tales 127/1 right before Amazing Spider-Man 19 where the Torch is captured by Sandman and the Enforcers because he is still exhausted from the fight he just had in ST 127.
Tales of Suspense 59/2
Avengers 9 (1 - 4)
Tales of Suspense 59
Avengers 9 (5)
Fantastic Four Annual 2/3
Fantastic Four Annual 2

Fantastic Four 31
Daredevil 4
Avengers 9 (6 - 21)
I see no reason why the two FF Annual #2 stories should take place during Avengers 9, but FF 31 is fine where it is because it occurs right before the Avengers meet Wonder-Man for the first time. I would move these two just before Tales of Suspense 59/2.
Strange Tales 128
Strange Tales 128/2

[...]
Avengers 11
Tales of Suspense 62-63
Amazing Spider-Man Annual 37
Strange Tales 118
Fantastic Four 36 (4)-FB
Strange Tales 118/2
i really don't understand why both Strange Tales are so far and both are listed as occurring between issues 128 and 129. Is it possible this was done by mistake or forgotten while re-editing to move stuff in your list?

P.S. I'm back after a couple of years break. So it finally took me almost three years to get back to you with my comments on your BIRTH OF THE AVENGERS to ENGAGEMENT OF REED AND SUE list after the ones I did then on your BIRTH OF THE FANTASTIC FOUR to BIRTH OF THE AVENGERS list. Fortunately, unlike my comments on the first list, these are all minor details. Maybe I've gone soft.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:10 am Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
Avengers 10
Captain America: Man Out of Time 5 (20 - 22)
X-Men 8
Uncanny X-Men 286 (4:1)-FB
X-Men Origins: Colossus 1 (2 - 9)
Uncanny X-Men 286 (4/5:2 - 4/5:6)-FB
Tales of Suspense 60/2
X-Men 9
X-Men Gold 1/2
Strange Tales 128
Strange Tales 128/2
Tales to Astonish 60/2-61/2
Tales to Astonish 62/2 (1 - 3:6)
Tales to Astonish 63
According the Official Index for Avengers, Tales to Astonish 60/2-62/2 occur before Avengers 10 and Tales of Suspense 60/2. Since there are no interactions with characters in the X-Men and Strange Tales issues, the move would be safe.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by StrayLamb »

RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:00 pmThe last two Tales of Suspense 45 overlap and one or two segments are missing.
The breakdown of this issue should be:

Tales of Suspense 45 (1 - 7:2): Tony Stark hires Happy Hogan who just saved his life.
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (3:10)-FB
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (1)
Tales of Suspense 45 (7:3 - 7:5): Several days later, Stark takes Hogan to his plant.
Iron Man: The Iron Age 2 (1 - 3:2): Both enter Stark's office.
Tales of Suspense 45 (7:5 - 8): Stark introduces Pepper to Happy.
Iron Man: The Iron Age 2 (3:3 - 6): (retake on scene above with the addition of discussion between Pepper and Happy.
Tales of Suspense 45 (9 - 12:5): Stark fires Shapanka who's been snooping in his vault.
Iron Man: The Iron Age 2 (7 - 14): Hogan arrives on that scene.
Sounds right - i'll incorporate that into the list.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:00 pmIMHO, two missing segments should follow. Since they span over several weeks, I split them in those two lines, but you can also merge them in one despite the time gap in between. They could be inserted right after the above scenes or where you see fit.
Tales of Suspense 45 (12:6-13:6): Weeks later, Shapanka does research on freezing living beings.
Tales of Suspense 45 (13:7-18): A week later, Jack Frost goes on a crime spree for several days, then attacks Stark Industries.
I'll place those - i have them in my master list, but they got left oout here for some reason.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:00 pmNeither segments from Tales to Astonish 47 are flashbacks. The first occurs months after Trago is back and faces Ant-Man and the Wasp. The second, several weeks later when Hank and Janet see him perform in a bistro.
Agreed - that was a mistake.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:00 pmWhile I understand that a good part of the flashback scenes in Daredevil 1 predates Fantastic Four 1, I don't understand why you would start with Daredevil 1 (9:3 - 12:4). I think that segment (7:3-9:2) should be contiguous because Matt is about the same age or at least, there is no apparent long gap between panels 9:2 and 9:3. Furthermore, from 8:4 to 9:4 is a continuous segment where Matt's father gets home while his son has his accident. MCP list is even more fragmented because several other titles have retakes of Daredevil's origin.

Also, there should be a gap right before 10:3 where Matt is accepted in college and meets Foggy. Likewise, there should be some time elapsed before 11:6 and 13:6. Battling Murdock's death most likely took some time after Matt's admission to college because his boxing career had the time to rise back.

However this may be pointless, because given the time it would take Matt to complete Law school after his father's death and open his legal practice approximately 2 years after FF 1, I' pretty sure that the whole flashback segment before 13:5 predates FF 1. A Master's degree takes way more than 2 years after college, right?
I'm pushing everything up to DD 1 (11:5) back into the years preceding FF 1, but from DD 1 (11:6), we have to be getting very near to DD's debut. Events from this point occur in rapid succession. In 11:6-11:7, Matt gets tickets to his dad’s latest fight for him and Foggy, then in 12-13:4, having been told by the Fixer to take a dive in tonight’s fight, Jack Murdock sees his son in the audience, and wins the match. As Jack leaves the gym, he’s gunned down by the Fixer’s man, Slade. Foggy consoles Matt, but reminds him that they’ll be graduating soon, and that he wants Matt to join him as his partner. There's a gap there before they graduate in 13:5, but due to DD's debut being driven by Matt's desire to take down the Fixer, 11:6-13:4 have to be pretty close to their graduation. They open an office the very next day after their graduation, and Foggy already has a secretary for them, Karen Page. This has been set up in advance by Foggy's dad, as per 13:4. That very night, Matt makes his first DD costume, creates his billy club, tests it all out, and heads out next morning to find the Fixer's men.

---
Strange Tales 119/2
Daredevil 1 (11:6 - 13:4)-FB
Avengers Classic 3/2
---
Daredevil 613 (22 - 23)-FB
Daredevil 1 (13:5 - 14:2)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (1 - 7:2)
Daredevil 1 (14:3 - 14:4)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (7:3 - 13:4)
Dark Reign: Mister Negative 3 (3:1)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (13:5 - 21)
Avengers 4 (16 - 23)
Daredevil 1 (1 - 4:2)
Daredevil 1 (14:3 - 22)
---
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:00 pmTales to Astonish 52/2 is not listed. I would place it between Tales to Astonish 52 and Tales to Astonish 53 because both these stories are unrelated and there can be a gap between.

Tales of Suspense 57-58 occurs between Amazing Spider-Man 15, where Kraven and the Chameleon are exiled, and Amazing Spider-Man Annual 1 where they are in America and join the Sinister Six. TOS 58 contains the scene where they smuggle back in the USA.
Thanks for that.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:00 pmAmazing Spider-Man 11 is listed twice. I would keep the first one that you split because Amazing Spider-Man 12 occurs one day after.
Yep, that's what i have. The second listing is a leftover.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:00 pmTales to Astonish 56 is not listed.
It's on my master list - must have gotten lost.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:00 pmI would move Strange Tales 127/1 right before Amazing Spider-Man 19 where the Torch is captured by Sandman and the Enforcers because he is still exhausted from the fight he just had in ST 127.

I see no reason why the two FF Annual #2 stories should take place during Avengers 9, but FF 31 is fine where it is because it occurs right before the Avengers meet Wonder-Man for the first time. I would move these two just before Tales of Suspense 59/2.
Thanks for that.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:00 pmi really don't understand why both Strange Tales are so far and both are listed as occurring between issues 128 and 129. Is it possible this was done by mistake or forgotten while re-editing to move stuff in your list?
:shrug: Too much bourbon? I'll move them.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:11 am According the Official Index for Avengers, Tales to Astonish 60/2-62/2 occur before Avengers 10 and Tales of Suspense 60/2. Since there are no interactions with characters in the X-Men and Strange Tales issues, the move would be safe.
Right-o.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 3:00 pmP.S. I'm back after a couple of years break. So it finally took me almost three years to get back to you with my comments on your BIRTH OF THE AVENGERS to ENGAGEMENT OF REED AND SUE list after the ones I did then on your BIRTH OF THE FANTASTIC FOUR to BIRTH OF THE AVENGERS list. Fortunately, unlike my comments on the first list, these are all minor details. Maybe I've gone soft.
And it's great to have you back! :D

Your contributions are invaluable, and your insights always welcome. Hopefully, you can stay around a little longer this time!

Updates applied. :thumbsup:
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:55 am I'm pushing everything up to DD 1 (11:5) back into the years preceding FF 1, but from DD 1 (11:6), we have to be getting very near to DD's debut. Events from this point occur in rapid succession. In 11:6-11:7, Matt gets tickets to his dad’s latest fight for him and Foggy, then in 12-13:4, having been told by the Fixer to take a dive in tonight’s fight, Jack Murdock sees his son in the audience, and wins the match. As Jack leaves the gym, he’s gunned down by the Fixer’s man, Slade. Foggy consoles Matt, but reminds him that they’ll be graduating soon, and that he wants Matt to join him as his partner. There's a gap there before they graduate in 13:5, but due to DD's debut being driven by Matt's desire to take down the Fixer, 11:6-13:4 have to be pretty close to their graduation. They open an office the very next day after their graduation, and Foggy already has a secretary for them, Karen Page. This has been set up in advance by Foggy's dad, as per 13:4. That very night, Matt makes his first DD costume, creates his billy club, tests it all out, and heads out next morning to find the Fixer's men.

---
Strange Tales 119/2
Daredevil 1 (11:6 - 13:4)-FB
Avengers Classic 3/2
---
Daredevil 613 (22 - 23)-FB
Daredevil 1 (13:5 - 14:2)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (1 - 7:2)
Daredevil 1 (14:3 - 14:4)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (7:3 - 13:4)
Dark Reign: Mister Negative 3 (3:1)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (13:5 - 21)
Avengers 4 (16 - 23)
Daredevil 1 (1 - 4:2)
Daredevil 1 (14:3 - 22)
---
Good call on your placement for this one.
And it's great to have you back! :D

Your contributions are invaluable, and your insights always welcome. Hopefully, you can stay around a little longer this time!

Updates applied. :thumbsup:
It is great to be back as well. I'm happy that my suggestions don't fall under deaf ears and that you've updated your listing. If my doc agrees, I should get back to work by midsummer, so I should have plenty of time by then to provide more insights. (You've probably noted that I've already gone through ENGAGEMENT OF REED & SUE TO DEFEAT OF GALACTUS -- for which I made several posts -- and I'm almost done with DEFEAT OF GALACTUS to MASTER PLAN OF THE MANDARIN.)

I intend to keep coming back in this forum after I get back to work but I won't have as much time. Also note that my notes stop at Strange Tales 150 for now. That's how far I got in CMRO listings. After that issue, my updates will be more sporadic because as I read each story, I also contribute in editing their website to make their pages more complete in terms of char, group or item listings, synopses submissions, etc. And I like to have a more general overview of each arc before I make my own chronology. I don't want to put a foot in my mouth (or in this case, on my keyboard) when I post a suggestion here, because that would be a waste of your time and mine.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by StrayLamb »

RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:58 amI don't want to put a foot in my mouth (or in this case, on my keyboard) when I post a suggestion here, because that would be a waste of your time and mine.
Don't do that - that's my province! I have more work and other commitments at the moment than i did a couple of years ago, and less time available to contribute here, so i appreciate other eyes on the chronologies. Rest assured, i do read each and every post, and consider all arguments. If i don't reply for a while, it's because i'm working long hours. At the moment, i'm having a few days off, and trying to catch up.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:04 pm
Don't do that - that's my province! I have more work and other commitments at the moment than i did a couple of years ago, and less time available to contribute here, so i appreciate other eyes on the chronologies. Rest assured, i do read each and every post, and consider all arguments. If i don't reply for a while, it's because i'm working long hours. At the moment, i'm having a few days off, and trying to catch up.
I agree and totally understand. While I maintain that I always try to double-check my own suggestions before I post them, I know that you will get to my posts eventually. I've been away for a long while because I had busy schedules at the job and when I got home, the last thing I needed was to spend even more hours on a computer. so I can relate. I'm pretty sure you're doing a lot on this forum as it is, so really, the last thing I wanna do is rush you! I'm very patient with people, it's hardware that gets me impatient! :lol:
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

There is an origin story that does not figure in your list. The Leader's origin is told in Tales to Astonish 63/2 and the narrative says it occurs less than a year earlier. Since the issue is listed in your 1965-1966: ENGAGEMENT OF REED & SUE TO DEFEAT OF GALACTUS list near early spring, I guess a good placement would be in this present list during or after spring. Yet the only time reference close to this period in your list is early February. Problem is there is also a flashback in Tales to Astonish 73/2 where the Leader sees Uatu, also not listed here. And according to the Watcher's timeline in MCP his appearance comes before Fantastic Four 20. So I would go with that assumption.

These segments could be added as follows:

[...]
Tales to Astonish 47 (13:4 - 13:7)
Tales to Astonish 48
Tales to Astonish 63/2 (2:2-3:2)
Iron Man: Kiss & Kill 1
[...]
X-Men 1
Tales to Astonish 73/2 (6:3-7:1)
Avengers 2
Avengers Classic 2/2
Fantastic Four 20
[...]

Of course, if you do have more accurate time references in your notes, you're probably in a better position to place these.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:10 am Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
[...]
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (15 - 16)
Avengers 3 (1 - 12)
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (17 - 18)
Avengers 3 (13 - 25)
Avengers 4 (1 - 3:7) ~ Saga of the Sub-Mariner 8 (14 - 16:4) ~ Age of Heroes 2 (2:4 - 7:2) ~ Fallen Son: Iron Man 1 (13) ~ Captain America Reborn 3 (1 - 8/9:1)
Saga of the Sub-Mariner 8 (17:4 - 17:5)
Sentry/X-Men 1 (10 - 12)-FB
What If 30/2 (4:5 - 7)
Journey Into Mystery 99-100
Fantastic Four 21 ~ Fury 1 (41:3 - 42)
Fury 1 (43 - 53)
Strange Tales 116
Uncanny Origins 9 (16)
[...]
According to MCP and Official Index for Avengers, Fantastic Four 21 and Strange Tales 116 should precede Avengers 3, unless a later issue proves otherwise. Since Fury and the Fantastic Four don't seem involved in the other stories around it, I would move issues this way:

[...]
Fantastic Four 21 ~ Fury 1 (41:3 - 42)
Fury 1 (43 - 53)
Strange Tales 116
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (15 - 16)
Avengers 3 (1 - 12)
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (17 - 18)
Avengers 3 (13 - 25)
Avengers 4 (1 - 3:7) ~ Saga of the Sub-Mariner 8 (14 - 16:4) ~ Age of Heroes 2 (2:4 - 7:2) ~ Fallen Son: Iron Man 1 (13) ~ Captain America Reborn 3 (1 - 8/9:1)
Saga of the Sub-Mariner 8 (17:4 - 17:5)
Sentry/X-Men 1 (10 - 12)-FB
What If 30/2 (4:5 - 7)
Journey Into Mystery 99-100
Uncanny Origins 9 (16)
[...]
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

Several segments of the Green Goblin's origin are missing. Here is what you have in your lists:
Birth of the Fantastic Four to Birth of the Avengers:
[...]
Fantastic Four 4 (14 - 15:5)
Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons 1 (38 - 40)
Spider-Man: With Great Power 3 (18 - 19:3)
[...]
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 14 (16:2 - 16:5)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 6
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 1-2
Spider-Man Family 9/2
Tales to Astonish 47 (6:2 - 6:7)
Avengers 1

Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 8
Web of Spider-Man II 2
Web of Spider-Man II 4
Amazing Spider-Man 13 (15:9)-FB
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 4
Tales to Astonish 50-51
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 10 (6 - 22)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8
Strange Tales 118
[...]
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 14
Amazing Spider-Man 14
Strange Tales 122
[...]
I've checked MCP's listing as well as Officiel Index for Spider-Man for issues between Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons 1 and Amazing Spider-Man 14. I've checked all the following issues and came up a breakdown of his appearances. I made a few adjustments to MCP's panel numbering where it did not match the comics and added those that were missing. This is what I got:

Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons 1
Amazing Spider-Man '97 (4:4-5:2)-FB: Dr. Lowell presents his research to Osborn who dismisses it and shuts down his project. (Not in your listing. The segment takes place before Avengers 3 because later on we see Sundown battling Giant-Man, the Wasp, Iron Man and Thor in a later flashback.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (3:2-3:5)-FB: Norman Osborn starts to neglect his teenage son who is now attending high school. (Not in your listing.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (3:7-4:1)-FB: Osborn has a quarrel with Dr. Stromm over the property of his research and has him arrested. (Not in your listing. Last panel repeated in Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8 (4:3)-FB.)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 1 (9:5): Osborn is seen with a briefcase in front of Osborn Chemical after the Scorcher's arrest. (Although he is not named, this appearance is confirmed in Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8 (4:4).)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 2 (10:1): Osborn attends a reception where someone tells him he has not seen him in a while. (Speech bubbles are not connected to anybody in this panel, so it is hard to tell he is visible there. However, his presence is confirmed in Official Index. He may be also in panel (12:4) where an unnamed character has his characteristic red fugly hairdon't.)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 4 (14:2): Attends a parade in the Spacemen's honor. (He is not named, but clearly recognizable in the background with his son and Gwen Stacy, right behind Jameson.)
Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:3-25:4)-FB: Can't attend Harry's parent's night because he is busy working on Stromm's formula. (Not in your listing.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (4:4-4:6)-FB: Works all night on Stromm's formula until he notes something wrong with the formula. (Not in your listing. Last panel repeated in Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin 3 (15:3)-FB.)
Amazing Spider-Man 514-FB-FB; Injects himself with the formula. (Not in your listing. Clearly not in the first version of the story because of the CCA's interdictions. Retcons that version which implied that he turned into the Green Goblin because of the explosion.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:1)-FB: Osborn is caught in an explosion in his lab. (Not in your listing. Same scene repeated in Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:6)-FB and Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin 3 (15:4)-FB.)
Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:7)-FB: Harry finds his father injured by the explosion. (Not in your listing.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:1)-FB: For weeks, surgeons are operating on Osborn. (Not in your listing.)
Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin 3 (15:5)-FB; Norman gloats over the idea that his mind is working more clearly and his strength has increased. (Not in your listing. Occurs most likely at the same time as Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:2)-FB because of the narrative.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:3-5:6)-FB: Harry visits his father who was admitted out of the hospital. (Not in your listing.)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8: After the news of the arrest of Big Man and the enforcers, Osborn remembers his dealings with Stromm, the Scorcher and his incident with Stromm's formula. Then he resumes his real work and locks himself in his lab to start drafting a costume for the Green Goblin.
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:7-6:1)-FB: Osborn has completed his Green Goblin costume. (Not in your listing.)
Amazing Spider-Man 14: First battle with Spidey.

With that in mind and despite the lack of correspondance with Spider-Man's timeline, I've come up with a listing that respects your current listing, the MCP and the Official Index ordering and as best as possible, the time gaps that the storyline implies. Here is what I got:

Birth of the Fantastic Four to Birth of the Avengers:
[...]
Fantastic Four 4 (14 - 15:5)
Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons 1 (38 - 40)
Spider-Man: With Great Power 3 (18 - 19:3)
[...]
Journey Into Mystery 96
Amazing Spider-Man 5
Tales of Suspense 43
Amazing Spider-Man '97 (4:4-5:2)-FB: This segment and the following two could go anywhere between Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons 1 and Spider-Man 6 so I place it relatively close to the segments where he starts working on Stromm's formula. My placement is random but based on some logic without going against official references.
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (3:2-3:5)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (3:7-4:1)-FB: I did not merge these two segments because panel (3:6) is not a flashback.
[...]
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 14 (16:2 - 16:5)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 6
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 1-2
Spider-Man Family 9/2
Tales to Astonish 47 (6:2 - 6:7)
Avengers 1

Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 8
Web of Spider-Man II 2
Web of Spider-Man II 4
Amazing Spider-Man 13 (15:9)-FB
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 4
Tales to Astonish 50-51
[...]
Avengers 3 (1 - 12)
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (17 - 18)
Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:3-25:4)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (4:4-4:6)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 514-FB-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:1)-FB
Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:7)-FB; All these occur overnight.
Avengers 3 (13 - 25)
[...]
Smash! 38
X-Men 3
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:2)-FB
Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin 3 (15:5)-FB
Deadly Hands of Kung Fu 11 (2:4 - 5:2)-FB [Master of Kung Fu]
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 10 (6 - 22)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:7-6:1)-FB
Strange Tales 118
[...]
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 14
Amazing Spider-Man 14
Strange Tales 122

Now I'm braindead. That was a toughy! Had to do the exercise twice because my first draft was somehow lost by clicking somewhere I should not and did not save before it.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

Now, while we're at origin stories, how about Electro's. This is what MCP listed, though I broke down a few scenes to combine with issues that repeat those scenes:

Amazing Spider-Man 422 (3:2-4:4)-FB: Max Dillon's trouble childhood. (Not in your list but precedes Fantastic Four first flight.)
Amazing Spider-Man 422 (6:2-6:5)-FB: Max's mother encourages him to work for the local electric company instead of going to school to become an electrical engineer. (Not in your list but most likely precedes Fantastic Four first flight because Max is probably around 19 yo if he means to go to college.)
Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:2-11:1)-FB: Max's mother dies. (Max is about to turn 25 yo.) Six months after, Max marries Norma Lynn who also works at the electric company where he keeps switching jobs. She leaves him after a short while his for his lack of ambition when he starts working as a lineman. (Not in your list. Should be split because it covers too much time.)
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (11:8-12:3)-FB (Same panels copied in Web of Spider-Man II 2 (2:3-2:4)(-FB.) ~ Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:2-11:1)-FB : Max survives a lightning strike while working on a pole.
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (11:4-12:8)-FB: Max discovers his powers and becomes Electro. (Combined with last segment in your list. Spans over a few weeks from the time he discovers his powers to the moment he builds his electricity lab and becomes Electro.
Web of Spider-Man II 2: Electro jacks a Stark Industries truck to steal transistorized components for his lab. While he is recharging, he gets a visit from Magneto, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver who want to recruit him, but he refuses. Then he kills a man who came collecting money from him. (Included twice in your list. Timeline logic makes me want to split this even if Officlal Index does not and places this after AMS 9 flashbacks. The building of his lab has to occur before he tries his recharging machine.)
Amazing Spider-Man 9: Electro faces Spider-Man.

Although the timeline as mentioned most of the time, it is hard to establish an exact placement in relation to other characters, so I had to approximate the best I could going backwards from his first appearance in AMS 9, the only one in your list. Here is my placement for those post Fantastic Four first flight:

Birth of the Fantastic Four to Birth of the Avengers:
[...]
Spider-Man: With Great Power 2 (1-15)
Alias 22 (10-16)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:2)-FB: His mother dies when he is almost 25 yo.
Tales of Suspense 39/1 (1-3:2) (a general intro to inventor/playboy TS)
[...]
Amazing Fantasy 18
Amazing Spider-Man 801 (11:1) [Late December]
Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:3)-FB: Six months later, marriage to Norma.
First X-Men 5 (20)
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 6
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 1-2
Spider-Man Family 9/2
Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:2-11:1)-FB: Takes a lineman job after switching several times and Norma leaves him. I say probably six months after their marriage.
Tales to Astonish 47 (6:2-6:7)
[...]

Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 7 (4:7 - 21)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 3 (2 - 11)
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (11:8-12:3)-FB ~ Web of Spider-Man II 2 (2:3-2:4)(-FB: Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:2-11:1)-FB. Lightning strike. Likely a month could be enough for his supervisor to know that he is their best pole man.
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (12:4-12:6)-FB ~ Amazing Spider-Man 422 (15:2)-FB: Discovers his powers and trains. Narrative says "short time later" so it is safe to keep it together with last segment.
Tales of Suspense 48
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 8
Web of Spider-Man II 2 (1-5:3): Steals components for his lab. This is the sixth time he does that in over a month.
Web of Spider-Man II 4
Amazing Spider-Man 13 (15:9)-FB
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 4
[...]
Fantastic Four 23
Human Torch II (17 - 22)-FB [October 29-November 7]
X-Men 4 (8:7-:9:1)-FB
Fantastic Four Annual 2/3 (4 - 5)-FB
Uncanny Origins 9 (17-18)
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (12:7)-FB ~ Web of Spider-Man II 2 (5:4): Lab is completed. Then he tries his recharging machine. Probably took a few days after he his last heist.
Web of Spider-Man II 2 (6-9): Visit from the Brotherhood while he is recharging. Nothing proves this is the same time as last segment, but nothing says otherwise either. Let's keep this simple.
Web of Spider-Man II 2 (10-11) - Kills his creditor. Scene ends with him getting ready with his costume in his hands. Could be right after he recharged. Could be merged with last segment.
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (12:8)-FB ~ Amazing Spider-Man 422 (15:3)-FB: Wears his costume, ready to go on a crime spree. He desperately needs money so could be right after killing the creditor.
Amazing Spider-Man 9

And since we're dealing with the Brotherhood, I also included the X-Men 4 flashback (was missing in your list) where Magneto saves the Scarlet Witch from an attack in her village, witch needs to occur some time before their visit to Electro.
Last edited by RobinHoodMtl on Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RobinHoodMtl
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:55 am ---
Strange Tales 119/2
Daredevil 1 (11:6 - 13:4)-FB
Avengers Classic 3/2
---
Daredevil 613 (22 - 23)-FB
Daredevil 1 (13:5 - 145:2)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (1 - 7:2)
Daredevil 1 (145:3 - 145:4)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (7:3 - 13:4)
Dark Reign: Mister Negative 3 (3:1)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (13:5 - 21)
Avengers 4 (16:5 - 23)
Daredevil 1 (1 - 45:2)
Daredevil 1 (14:315:5 - 22)
---
There seems to be some inaccuracies in your new panel numbering: Adjustments in red.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:10 am Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
...
Tales of Suspense 56
Tales of Suspense 56/2
Daredevil 3
Avengers 7
Avengers Classic 7/2
Captain America: Man Out of Time 4 (6:3 - 11)
Fantastic Four 669 (FF6 24)-FB
Strange Tales 123/2
Fantastic Four 29
Journey Into Mystery 107
...
Tales to Astonish 61
Tales of Suspense 56/2
Fantastic Four 32
...
According to the Watcher's timeline in Officiel Index for Iron Man, his adventure in Tales of Suspense 56/2 should be placed after Fantastic Four 29.
But, the issue must be split, for the appearance of Johnny, Ben and Reed occurs between Fantastic Four 31 and 32 since there is a month gap before they appear at the end of the story. Still, you listed Tales of Suspense 56/2 twice and the second appearance is placed correctly. You only forgot to mention the panels in both occurrences.

My version of the list goes like this:
Strange Tales 123/2
Fantastic Four 29
Tales of Suspense 56/2 (1-5:4)
Journey Into Mystery 107
...
Tales to Astonish 61
Tales of Suspense 56/2 (5:5-5:6)
Fantastic Four 32
RobinHoodMtl
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:10 am Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
...
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 5 (10 - 20) (except Wanda & Pietro)
Amazing Spider-Man 22
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 24
Amazing Spider-Man 23
Gwen Stacy 1 (1 - 17)
Fantastic Four 36 (5:4 - 5:6)-FB
Fantastic Four 35

Strange Tales 130
Fantastic Four 36 (1 - 3) ~ Marvels 2 (23)
Fantastic Four 36 (5:1 - 5:3)
Fantastic Four 36 (6 - 8:1)

Marvels 2 (24)
Fantastic Four 36 (8:2 - 21)
Marvels 2 (25:1)
According to Official Index for Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man 22 takes place between Fantastic Four 35 and 36, which is followed by Spider-Man 23. If we try to respect that official reference, proper sequence for Spider-Man character should probably go like this:

Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
...
Fantastic Four 36 (5:4 - 5:6)-FB
Fantastic Four 35
Strange Tales 130
Amazing Spider-Man 22
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 24
Fantastic Four 36 (1 - 3) ~ Marvels 2 (23)
Fantastic Four 36 (5:1 - 5:3)
Fantastic Four 36 (6 - 8:1)[/b]
Marvels 2 (24)
Fantastic Four 36 (8:2 - 21)
Marvels 2 (25:1)

Engagement of Reed and Sue to Defeat of Galactus:
Amazing Spider-Man 23
Gwen Stacy 1 (1 - 17)
X-Men 10
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 25 (1 - 2)
Gwen Stacy 1 (18 - 23)
...
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