Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Discuss chronologies for characters in the main "Marvel Universe"

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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by StrayLamb »

RobinHoodMtl wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:22 am There is an origin story that does not figure in your list. The Leader's origin is told in Tales to Astonish 63/2 and the narrative says it occurs less than a year earlier. Since the issue is listed in your 1965-1966: ENGAGEMENT OF REED & SUE TO DEFEAT OF GALACTUS list near early spring, I guess a good placement would be in this present list during or after spring. Yet the only time reference close to this period in your list is early February. Problem is there is also a flashback in Tales to Astonish 73/2 where the Leader sees Uatu, also not listed here. And according to the Watcher's timeline in MCP his appearance comes before Fantastic Four 20. So I would go with that assumption.

These segments could be added as follows:

[...]
Tales to Astonish 47 (13:4 - 13:7)
Tales to Astonish 48
Tales to Astonish 63/2 (2:2-3:2)
Iron Man: Kiss & Kill 1
[...]
X-Men 1
Tales to Astonish 73/2 (6:3-7:1)
Avengers 2
Avengers Classic 2/2
Fantastic Four 20
[...]

Of course, if you do have more accurate time references in your notes, you're probably in a better position to place these.
Yep, those placements are probably as good as anywhere.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by StrayLamb »

RobinHoodMtl wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:29 pmAccording to MCP and Official Index for Avengers, Fantastic Four 21 and Strange Tales 116 should precede Avengers 3, unless a later issue proves otherwise.
Au contraire, the MCP lists FF 21 after A 3 for all characters.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by StrayLamb »

RobinHoodMtl wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:34 am Several segments of the Green Goblin's origin are missing.

I've checked MCP's listing as well as Officiel Index for Spider-Man for issues between Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons 1 and Amazing Spider-Man 14. I've checked all the following issues and came up a breakdown of his appearances. I made a few adjustments to MCP's panel numbering where it did not match the comics and added those that were missing. This is what I got:

Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons 1
Amazing Spider-Man '97 (4:4-5:2)-FB: Dr. Lowell presents his research to Osborn who dismisses it and shuts down his project. (Not in your listing. The segment takes place before Avengers 3 because later on we see Sundown battling Giant-Man, the Wasp, Iron Man and Thor in a later flashback.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (3:2-3:5)-FB: Norman Osborn starts to neglect his teenage son who is now attending high school. (Not in your listing.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (3:7-4:1)-FB: Osborn has a quarrel with Dr. Stromm over the property of his research and has him arrested. (Not in your listing. Last panel repeated in Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8 (4:3)-FB.)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 1 (9:5): Osborn is seen with a briefcase in front of Osborn Chemical after the Scorcher's arrest. (Although he is not named, this appearance is confirmed in Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8 (4:4).)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 2 (10:1): Osborn attends a reception where someone tells him he has not seen him in a while. (Speech bubbles are not connected to anybody in this panel, so it is hard to tell he is visible there. However, his presence is confirmed in Official Index. He may be also in panel (12:4) where an unnamed character has his characteristic red fugly hairdon't.)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 4 (14:2): Attends a parade in the Spacemen's honor. (He is not named, but clearly recognizable in the background with his son and Gwen Stacy, right behind Jameson.)
Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:3-25:4)-FB: Can't attend Harry's parent's night because he is busy working on Stromm's formula. (Not in your listing.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (4:4-4:6)-FB: Works all night on Stromm's formula until he notes something wrong with the formula. (Not in your listing. Last panel repeated in Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin 3 (15:3)-FB.)
Amazing Spider-Man 514-FB-FB; Injects himself with the formula. (Not in your listing. Clearly not in the first version of the story because of the CCA's interdictions. Retcons that version which implied that he turned into the Green Goblin because of the explosion.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:1)-FB: Osborn is caught in an explosion in his lab. (Not in your listing. Same scene repeated in Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:6)-FB and Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin 3 (15:4)-FB.)
Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:7)-FB: Harry finds his father injured by the explosion. (Not in your listing.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:1)-FB: For weeks, surgeons are operating on Osborn. (Not in your listing.)
Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin 3 (15:5)-FB; Norman gloats over the idea that his mind is working more clearly and his strength has increased. (Not in your listing. Occurs most likely at the same time as Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:2)-FB because of the narrative.)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:3-5:6)-FB: Harry visits his father who was admitted out of the hospital. (Not in your listing.)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8: After the news of the arrest of Big Man and the enforcers, Osborn remembers his dealings with Stromm, the Scorcher and his incident with Stromm's formula. Then he resumes his real work and locks himself in his lab to start drafting a costume for the Green Goblin.
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:7-6:1)-FB: Osborn has completed his Green Goblin costume. (Not in your listing.)
Amazing Spider-Man 14: First battle with Spidey.

With that in mind and despite the lack of correspondance with Spider-Man's timeline, I've come up with a listing that respects your current listing, the MCP and the Official Index ordering and as best as possible, the time gaps that the storyline implies. Here is what I got:

Birth of the Fantastic Four to Birth of the Avengers:
[...]
Fantastic Four 4 (14 - 15:5)
Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons 1 (38 - 40)
Spider-Man: With Great Power 3 (18 - 19:3)
[...]
Journey Into Mystery 96
Amazing Spider-Man 5
Tales of Suspense 43
Amazing Spider-Man '97 (4:4-5:2)-FB: This segment and the following two could go anywhere between Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons 1 and Spider-Man 6 so I place it relatively close to the segments where he starts working on Stromm's formula. My placement is random but based on some logic without going against official references.
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (3:2-3:5)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (3:7-4:1)-FB: I did not merge these two segments because panel (3:6) is not a flashback.
[...]
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 14 (16:2 - 16:5)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 6
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 1-2
Spider-Man Family 9/2
Tales to Astonish 47 (6:2 - 6:7)
Avengers 1

Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 8
Web of Spider-Man II 2
Web of Spider-Man II 4
Amazing Spider-Man 13 (15:9)-FB
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 4
Tales to Astonish 50-51
[...]
Avengers 3 (1 - 12)
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 1 (17 - 18)
Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:3-25:4)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (4:4-4:6)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 514-FB-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:1)-FB
Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:7)-FB; All these occur overnight.
Avengers 3 (13 - 25)
[...]
Smash! 38
X-Men 3
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:2)-FB
Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin 3 (15:5)-FB
Deadly Hands of Kung Fu 11 (2:4 - 5:2)-FB [Master of Kung Fu]
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 10 (6 - 22)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:7-6:1)-FB
Strange Tales 118
[...]
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 14
Amazing Spider-Man 14
Strange Tales 122
Based on the outline given here, which incorporates Michel's changes to Osborn's chronology based on that shown in UTSM 8, i've come up with the following, which places Osborn's weeks in the hospital from just after Spring Break to just before Summer Break..

Birth of the Fantastic Four to Birth of the Avengers:
---
Fantastic Four 10
Incredible Hulk 5 (9:7 - 11)
Tales to Astonish 43 (4:3 - 6:5)
Incredible Hulk 5/2 (1 - 5)
Tales to Astonish 43 (6:6 - 13)
Tales to Astonish 44 (1 - 5:6)
Incredible Hulk 5/2 (6 - 13:6)
Journey Into Mystery 90 (1 - 2:2)
Amazing Spider-Man 801 (11:2)
Amazing Spider-Man '97 (4:4 - 5:2)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (3:2 - 3:5)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (3:7 - 4:1)-FB
Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:3 - 25:4)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (4:4 - 4:6)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 514-FB-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:1)-FB
Spectacular Spider Man Annual 14 (25:7)-FB

Fantastic Four 11
---
Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man Annual 1
Journey Into Mystery 99 (4:3 - 4:6)-FB
Journey Into Mystery 96
Amazing Spider-Man 5
Tales of Suspense 43
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:2)-FB
Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin 3 (15:5)-FB

Strange Tales 112
Tales of Suspense 47 (3:2 - 3:5)-FB
Iron Man: The Iron Age 1 (21)
Tales of Suspense 44 (1 - 13:6)
Tales of Suspense 44/3
Tales of Suspense 47 (3:6 - 4:1)-FB
Tales of Suspense 44 (13:7)
Iron Man: Director of SHIELD 30 (1 - 3)-FB
Fury 1 (26:1 - 39:2)
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:3 - 5:6)-FB
Peter Parker Spider-Man 2001 Annual 1 [Summer Break begins]
Strange Tales Annual 2
Fantastic Four Annual 1 (4 - 37)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 14 (16:2 - 16:5)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 6
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 1 (1 - 14:1)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8 (4:4)-FB
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 1 (14:2 - 20)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 2

Spider-Man Family 9/2
Tales to Astonish 47 (6:2 - 6:7)
Avengers 1

Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
---
Amazing Spider-Man 9 [Early February]
Amazing Spider-Man 10 (1 - 5:5)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8 (4:5 - 4:6)-FB
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 5
Amazing Spider-Man 10 (5:6 - 5:7)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 6-7
Amazing Spider-Man 10 (6 - 22)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 8
Amazing Spider-Man 40 (5:7 - 6:1)-FB
Strange Tales 118
Strange Tales 118/2
Strange Tales 119 (2:3 - 2:6)-FB
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 9
---
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:34 amNow I'm braindead. That was a toughy!
Yep - welcome to my world! :-P

We all put in a lot of migraine-inducing hours of work on these chronologies. :yepp:
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 1:34 amHad to do the exercise twice because my first draft was somehow lost by clicking somewhere I should not and did not save before it.
We've all been there! Now you're fully initiated! :lol:
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 10:53 pm
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:29 pmAccording to MCP and Official Index for Avengers, Fantastic Four 21 and Strange Tales 116 should precede Avengers 3, unless a later issue proves otherwise.
Au contraire, the MCP lists FF 21 after A 3 for all characters.
My bad, you're right about MCP. But here is what Official Index for Avengers has:

"Fantastic Four: Human Torch, Invisible Girl, Mr. Fantastic, Thing (prev 4 last in ST #116, '64, next in FF #22, '64)."

Unless MCP has good reasons to say otherwise, I would tend to go with the official stuff.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 9:16 am Based on the outline given here, which incorporates Michel's changes to Osborn's chronology based on that shown in UTSM 8, i've come up with the following, which places Osborn's weeks in the hospital from just after Spring Break to just before Summer Break..
As mentioned in my reply to Michel, this works for me as well. And thanks for fixing my panel numbering where needed.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by StrayLamb »

RobinHoodMtl wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 11:22 am
StrayLamb wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 10:53 pm
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 4:29 pmAccording to MCP and Official Index for Avengers, Fantastic Four 21 and Strange Tales 116 should precede Avengers 3, unless a later issue proves otherwise.
Au contraire, the MCP lists FF 21 after A 3 for all characters.
My bad, you're right about MCP. But here is what Official Index for Avengers has:

"Fantastic Four: Human Torch, Invisible Girl, Mr. Fantastic, Thing (prev 4 last in ST #116, '64, next in FF #22, '64)."

Unless MCP has good reasons to say otherwise, I would tend to go with the official stuff.
The MCP's placement is based on the chronology as set out in Fury 1.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by StrayLamb »

RobinHoodMtl wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:46 pm Now, while we're at origin stories, how about Electro's. This is what MCP listed, though I broke down a few scenes to combine with issues that repeat those scenes:

Amazing Spider-Man 422 (3:2-4:4)-FB: Max Dillon's trouble childhood. (Not in your list but precedes Fantastic Four first flight.)
Amazing Spider-Man 422 (6:2-6:5)-FB: Max's mother encourages him to work for the local electric company instead of going to school to become an electrical engineer. (Not in your list but most likely precedes Fantastic Four first flight because Max is probably around 19 yo if he means to go to college.)
Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:2-11:1)-FB: Max's mother dies. (Max is about to turn 25 yo.) Six months after, Max marries Norma Lynn who also works at the electric company where he keeps switching jobs. She leaves him after a short while his for his lack of ambition when he starts working as a lineman. (Not in your list. Should be split because it covers too much time.)
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (11:8-12:3)-FB (Same panels copied in Web of Spider-Man II 2 (2:3-2:4)(-FB.) ~ Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:2-11:1)-FB : Max survives a lightning strike while working on a pole.
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (11:4-12:8)-FB: Max discovers his powers and becomes Electro. (Combined with last segment in your list. Spans over a few weeks from the time he discovers his powers to the moment he builds his electricity lab and becomes Electro.
Web of Spider-Man II 2: Electro jacks a Stark Industries truck to steal transistorized components for his lab. While he is recharging, he gets a visit from Magneto, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver who want to recruit him, but he refuses. Then he kills a man who came collecting money from him. (Included twice in your list. Timeline logic makes me want to split this even if Officlal Index does not and places this after AMS 9 flashbacks. The building of his lab has to occur before he tries his recharging machine.)
Amazing Spider-Man 9: Electro faces Spider-Man.

Although the timeline as mentioned most of the time, it is hard to establish an exact placement in relation to other characters, so I had to approximate the best I could going backwards from his first appearance in AMS 9, the only one in your list. Here is my placement for those post Fantastic Four first flight:

Birth of the Fantastic Four to Birth of the Avengers:
[...]
Spider-Man: With Great Power 2 (1-15)
Alias 22 (10-16)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:2)-FB: His mother dies when he is almost 25 yo.
Tales of Suspense 39/1 (1-3:2) (a general intro to inventor/playboy TS)
[...]
Amazing Fantasy 18
Amazing Spider-Man 801 (11:1) [Late December]
Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:3)-FB: Six months later, marriage to Norma.
First X-Men 5 (20)
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 6
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 1-2
Spider-Man Family 9/2
Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:2-11:1)-FB: Takes a lineman job after switching several times and Norma leaves him. I say probably six months after their marriage.
Tales to Astonish 47 (6:2-6:7)
[...]

Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 7 (4:7 - 21)
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 3 (2 - 11)
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (11:8-12:3)-FB ~ Web of Spider-Man II 2 (2:3-2:4)(-FB: Amazing Spider-Man 422 (10:2-11:1)-FB. Lightning strike. Likely a month could be enough for his supervisor to know that he is their best pole man.
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (12:4-12:6)-FB ~ Amazing Spider-Man 422 (15:2)-FB: Discovers his powers and trains. Narrative says "short time later" so it is safe to keep it together with last segment.
Tales of Suspense 48
[...]
Amazing Spider-Man 8
Web of Spider-Man II 2 (1-5:3): Steals components for his lab. This is the sixth time he does that in over a month.
Web of Spider-Man II 4
Amazing Spider-Man 13 (15:9)-FB
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 4
[...]
Fantastic Four 23
Human Torch II (17 - 22)-FB [October 29-November 7]
X-Men 4 (8:7-:9:1)-FB
Fantastic Four Annual 2/3 (4 - 5)-FB
Uncanny Origins 9 (17-18)
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (12:7)-FB ~ Web of Spider-Man II 2 (5:4): Lab is completed. Then he tries his recharging machine. Probably took a few days after he his last heist.
Web of Spider-Man II 2 (6-9): Visit from the Brotherhood while he is recharging. Nothing proves this is the same time as last segment, but nothing says otherwise either. Let's keep this simple.
Web of Spider-Man II 2 (10-11) - Kills his creditor. Scene ends with him getting ready with his costume in his hands. Could be right after he recharged. Could be merged with last segment.
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (12:8)-FB ~ Amazing Spider-Man 422 (15:3)-FB: Wears his costume, ready to go on a crime spree. He desperately needs money so could be right after killing the creditor.
Amazing Spider-Man 9

And since we're dealing with the Brotherhood, I also included the X-Men 4 flashback (was missing in your list) where Magneto saves the Scarlet Witch from an attack in her village, witch needs to occur some time before their visit to Electro.
That all works for me. A lot of these flashbacks are missing because i simply haven't had the time to go thru and vet them myself, so i appreciate you taking up some of the slack here. :thumbsup:
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 10:05 am
That all works for me. A lot of these flashbacks are missing because i simply haven't had the time to go thru and vet them myself, so i appreciate you taking up some of the slack here. :thumbsup:
The simple fact that you consider and appreciate what I'm posting makes it worth the time I take to do it. :)

Question: Do you systematically update you lists on the forum when you approve of the suggestions people make or do you wait to have a lot of updates to make before you change them?

The reason I'm asking is that when I'm posting suggestions, I refer to your original list and the segments I'm referring to may take place very close to suggestions I made in previous posts. I know you usually post a comment lie "Updates applied" when you're done, but with all the exchanges we're having, it's hard to keep up. I do have a list built from yours where I keep track of the issues I processed, the suggestions I made and those that you've commented on, but I'm not sure that it matches your current list.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:10 am Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
Tales of Suspense 60
Tales to Astonish 62
There is a missing but important flashback that you should include in your list:

Tales of Suspense 60: Ends with the Black Widow aboard a jet after getting captured by Sergi Amkov who takes her beyond the Iron Curtain.
Tales of Suspense 64 (3:6-5:1)-FB: First of these panels show that same jet. The Black Widow tells Hawkeye what happened after she arrived at destination

This last scene is important because it depicts the use of her parents as leverage, how she got her new costume and her special gauntlets and the new mission they gave her. Although it may span over more than one day, I'd keep it in one block because no time scale is given. And I would place it right after Tales of Suspense 60.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:10 am Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
...
X-Men Origins: Jean Grey 1 (24:4 - 30)
Strange Tales 126
Marvels 2 (19 - 22)
...
Engagement of Reed and Sue to Defeat of Galactus:
...
Fantastic Four 135 (7:2 - 8:2)
Strange Tales 132-134
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 7 (16 - 20)
...
Here is another flashback that should be included.

Strange Tales 133 (5:3-5:6)-FB-FB: During a flashback within the story, the Puppet Master has another flashback where he recalls how he discovered a ray that can turn living beings into statues.
Strange Tales 133 (5:7)-FB-FB: Redrawing of the panel shown in Strange Tales 126 (13:3). Not necessary to add it.

Of course, his discovery occurs between Strange Tales 126 and Strange Tales 133.He underwent plastic surgery after Strange Tales 126 to avoid being recognized and this flashback shows him with his new Uncle Fester face while he is experimenting. So I'd say this has to occur is at least one month after ST 126 so his face has time to heal. And I would not place it too close to ST 133 because he begins his monologue saying: "It all started the day I discovered..." which sounds like some time has elapsed. My best guess would be to place it here:

Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
...
Strange Tales 129
Strange Tales 133 (5:3-5:6)
Strange Tales 129/2
...

But since it is relatively random, your guess is as good as mine.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by StrayLamb »

RobinHoodMtl wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 4:16 pmQuestion: Do you systematically update you lists on the forum when you approve of the suggestions people make or do you wait to have a lot of updates to make before you change them?

The reason I'm asking is that when I'm posting suggestions, I refer to your original list and the segments I'm referring to may take place very close to suggestions I made in previous posts. I know you usually post a comment lie "Updates applied" when you're done, but with all the exchanges we're having, it's hard to keep up. I do have a list built from yours where I keep track of the issues I processed, the suggestions I made and those that you've commented on, but I'm not sure that it matches your current list.
Sometimes i add minor corrections or insert flashbacks as i come across them, without posting a note to that effect. I post update notes for anything major or that's come from the boards.

I updated Birth of the FF to Birth of the Avengers on May 1, but we've done more work since then. I'll add a note to each of the lists we're working on when i apply the updates. I'm holding off at the moment while we're still scratching at them. I always apply the most recent updates in bold, but i can make it a color change if that helps.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by StrayLamb »

RobinHoodMtl wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:15 pm
StrayLamb wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 1:55 am ---
Strange Tales 119/2
Daredevil 1 (11:6 - 13:4)-FB
Avengers Classic 3/2
---
Daredevil 613 (22 - 23)-FB
Daredevil 1 (13:5 - 145:2)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (1 - 7:2)
Daredevil 1 (145:3 - 145:4)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (7:3 - 13:4)
Dark Reign: Mister Negative 3 (3:1)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 11 (13:5 - 21)
Avengers 4 (16:5 - 23)
Daredevil 1 (1 - 45:2)
Daredevil 1 (14:315:5 - 22)
---
There seems to be some inaccuracies in your new panel numbering: Adjustments in red.
I'll fix those, thanks.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:30 pmAccording to the Watcher's timeline in Officiel Index for Iron Man, his adventure in Tales of Suspense 56/2 should be placed after Fantastic Four 29.
But, the issue must be split, for the appearance of Johnny, Ben and Reed occurs between Fantastic Four 31 and 32 since there is a month gap before they appear at the end of the story. Still, you listed Tales of Suspense 56/2 twice and the second appearance is placed correctly. You only forgot to mention the panels in both occurrences.

My version of the list goes like this:
Strange Tales 123/2
Fantastic Four 29
Tales of Suspense 56/2 (1-5:4)
Journey Into Mystery 107
...
Tales to Astonish 61
Tales of Suspense 56/2 (5:5-5:6)
Fantastic Four 32
Works for me.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:27 amAccording to Official Index for Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man 22 takes place between Fantastic Four 35 and 36, which is followed by Spider-Man 23. If we try to respect that official reference, proper sequence for Spider-Man character should probably go like this:

Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
...
Fantastic Four 36 (5:4 - 5:6)-FB
Fantastic Four 35
Strange Tales 130
Amazing Spider-Man 22
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 24
Fantastic Four 36 (1 - 3) ~ Marvels 2 (23)
Fantastic Four 36 (5:1 - 5:3)
Fantastic Four 36 (6 - 8:1)[/b]
Marvels 2 (24)
Fantastic Four 36 (8:2 - 21)
Marvels 2 (25:1)

Engagement of Reed and Sue to Defeat of Galactus:
Amazing Spider-Man 23
Gwen Stacy 1 (1 - 17)
X-Men 10
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 25 (1 - 2)
Gwen Stacy 1 (18 - 23)
...
I've addressed this here, but will add it here as well for completeness..

Doesn't work. Gwen Stacy 1 (1 - 17) specifically references ASM 23, and leads directly into FF 35. FF 35-36 will need to be moved for Spidey to accomodate this.

ASM 23 [The Bugle runs Foswell's story on Lucky Lobo]
GSTACY 1 (1 - 17) [Captain Stacy’s elbow-deep in the Lucky Lobo case, which was broken by Foswell’s story in the Bugle (ref. ASM 23); the news reports that Reed Richards of the FF will return to his old alma mater to deliver a lecture]
FF 35 [Reed heads to his old alma mater, State University (Hegeman), to deliver a lecture]
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 4:26 pmThere is a missing but important flashback that you should include in your list:

Tales of Suspense 60: Ends with the Black Widow aboard a jet after getting captured by Sergi Amkov who takes her beyond the Iron Curtain.
Tales of Suspense 64 (3:6-5:1)-FB: First of these panels show that same jet. The Black Widow tells Hawkeye what happened after she arrived at destination

This last scene is important because it depicts the use of her parents as leverage, how she got her new costume and her special gauntlets and the new mission they gave her. Although it may span over more than one day, I'd keep it in one block because no time scale is given. And I would place it right after Tales of Suspense 60.
Agreed.
RobinHoodMtl wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 6:28 pm Here is another flashback that should be included.

Strange Tales 133 (5:3-5:6)-FB-FB: During a flashback within the story, the Puppet Master has another flashback where he recalls how he discovered a ray that can turn living beings into statues.
Strange Tales 133 (5:7)-FB-FB: Redrawing of the panel shown in Strange Tales 126 (13:3). Not necessary to add it.

Of course, his discovery occurs between Strange Tales 126 and Strange Tales 133.He underwent plastic surgery after Strange Tales 126 to avoid being recognized and this flashback shows him with his new Uncle Fester face while he is experimenting. So I'd say this has to occur is at least one month after ST 126 so his face has time to heal. And I would not place it too close to ST 133 because he begins his monologue saying: "It all started the day I discovered..." which sounds like some time has elapsed. My best guess would be to place it here:

Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
...
Strange Tales 129
Strange Tales 133 (5:3-5:6)
Strange Tales 129/2
...

But since it is relatively random, your guess is as good as mine.
Works for me.

Updates applied.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:10 am Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (11:7 - 12:86)-FB
Web of Spider-Man II 2
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (12:7)-FB ~ Web of Spider-Man II 2 (5:4)
Web of Spider-Man II 2 (6 - 11)
Amazing Spider-Man 9 (12:8)-FB ~ Amazing Spider-Man 422 (15:3)-FB
Fixed what appears like a typo in red.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:10 am Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
...
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 18
Tales of Suspense 57-58
Amazing Spider-Man Annual 1
...
There's a single panel in Avengers 16 that could be inserted this way:

Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue:
...
Untold Tales of Spider-Man 18
Tales of Suspense 57 (1-7:1): Last panel shows Hawkeye saying he'll have to run for it
Avengers 16 (7:6): Hawkeye is running away from the police who are on foot saying: "Don't let him get away"
Tales of Suspense 57 (7:2-18): First panel shows Hawkeye chased by the police in a car.
Tales of Suspense 58
Amazing Spider-Man Annual 1
...

And while we're at it, next two panels in Avengers 16 are also missing. At first, I thought they were within Tales of Suspense 64 right before and after panel (12:6), but this is a totally different scene. In TOS 64, it is Iron Man who stuns the Black Widow and Hawkeye does not seem aware yet that she was hired by the Communists. But the panels in A 16 show her on the ground apparently shot by the communist agents behind her. At that time, Hawkeye now knows she just deserted the Reds. Furthermore, he says it happened a week earlier. And most importantly, this is when Hawkeye decides to make amends for his troubled past. MCP lists Hawkeye's appearance like this:
HAWK:BS 1 (16:2 - 16:6)-FB: Hawkeye starts to reconsider his ways as he reads an article about the Avengers.
A:EMH 5 (1 - 3:3): Hawkeye saves Jarvis and his mother from thugs.
HAWK:BS 2 (6:3 - 6:5)-FB: Hawkeye speaks to Jarvis and his mother whom he just saved.
A:EMH 5 (3:4 - 22): First panel shows Hawkeye asking Jarvis to tell the cops he's a good guy.
A:EMH 6
A 16-FB
HAWK:BS 2 (7:1 - 7:4)-FB
I know Official Index for Avengers also places the flashback in A 16 after Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes 6. However, in my opinion, the flashback in A 16 should precede his saving Jarvis and his mom, proving that he's already reformed and started making amends. If we are to keep your list in the same order, this is where I would insert it:

Engagement of Reed and Sue to Defeat of Galactus:
...
Avengers 15 (1 - 5)
Avengers 16 (8:1 - 8:2)-FB
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 5 (Wanda & Pietro)
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 5 (21 - 22)
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 6 (1 - 6)
Avengers 15 (6 - 19:2)
Avengers 16 (1 - 2:4)
...
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 6 (9 - 14)
Marvel Heroes and Legends 1997 1 (17 - 22:3)
...
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 7 (2:1 - 2:2)
Avengers 16 (7:5 - 8:3)
Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 7 (2:3)
...

Of course, if you want to stay in line with Official index and MCP, you can always place it after Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 6.

Note: i see in this list that you don't have issues for the Hawkeye: Blindspot series so I did not include Hawkeye: Blindspot 2 (6:3 - 6:5)-FB in mine either. But if you want to include it, you'll have to split Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes 5 and place it as MCP does.
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Re: Chronology: Birth of the Avengers to Engagement of Reed & Sue

Post by RobinHoodMtl »

StrayLamb wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 7:22 pm
Sometimes i add minor corrections or insert flashbacks as i come across them, without posting a note to that effect. I post update notes for anything major or that's come from the boards.

I updated Birth of the FF to Birth of the Avengers on May 1, but we've done more work since then. I'll add a note to each of the lists we're working on when i apply the updates. I'm holding off at the moment while we're still scratching at them. I always apply the most recent updates in bold, but i can make it a color change if that helps.
Thanks. I've checked the first two lists with what I have and we're pretty much in sync except for the recent posts you did not get to yet. I don't think color code will be necessary, but if by notes you mean the comments you place in brackets at the end of some segments that would be a good idea when necessary. On the same note, if you do have some more clues on dates or periods at hands in your notes, that would be a nice thing to share here. Sometimes it is hard to place a flashback that occurs x weeks or months ago because the lists don't have much in terms of timescale.
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