Call for analysis: CONAN!

[Midnighter]

Congratulations Colonel! A titanic job done in record time!

Of course, you have now become Conan's foremost chronology expert and you will always have to be called into question for any doubts regarding the Cimmerian!

[vanhornluke]

Wow! Wonderful job.

Any ruling on whether those Italian Conan stories should be covered, too?

[Col_Fury]

re: Midnighter
aw, shucks.

re: vanhornluke
If someone could track down copies and provide a translated analysis, that would be a good start.

[Col_Fury]

Hey, wait. Where's my steak?

I was promised a steak!

[StrayLamb]

I'll buy you a steak any time you're heading up the Great Eastern Highway!

[Russ Chappell]

Don't think he won't take you up on it!

[StrayLamb]

[Col_Fury]

It's a deal!

[vanhornluke]

Here is some more info about the original Italian (and Spanish) Conan stories in a post at the Complete Marvel Reading Order, in case anyone wanted to follow up and get these stories analyzed and added into MCP: link.

[wolverine7230]

Hello all!
Been a while since I posted here (I've found myself rather busy since starting university), but I've been lurking and recently started a full Conan read-through following the chronology established here (fantastic work - as ever - Col_Fury!!), mostly for enjoyment, and I figured a fresh pair of eyes going over everything could never be a bad thing! I'm not particularly far in but I believe a rework of this section of the chronology is needed:

CONAN
...
SAVSCO 227 (1 - 11)
KCO 9-FB
SAVSCO 227 (12 - 15)
COB 48-FB
COB 233 (10 - 24)
COB 234
COB 235
COB 236-FB
COB 236
COB 237
COB 238-FB
COB 238
COB 239
COB 240 (1 - 16)-FB
COB 8-FB
COB 1 (14:5)-FB
COA 1 FB
COA 1 (1 - 10)
COB 145-FB
SAVSCO 6/2 (7 - 8)-FB
COA 1 (11 - 21)
SAVSCO 6/2 (9 - 14)-FB
SAVSCO 6/2
COA 1 (22)
...

Reading through this we have three main events: Conan's Fifteenth Birthday ("Day of Manhood"), Conan's adventures with Jormma, and the Battle of Venarium. The main issue is that COB 235 also depicts the Battle of Venarium, but is separated from the other relevant issues by COB 236-240. Additionally there are a couple of other changes I'd make. I'll work through piece by piece:

COB 233 (10-13)
I'm pretty sure this has to come before Conan's Day of Manhood as his father gives him a knife here (which we see him hand over before fighting the bull in SAVSCO 227). As Conan's age is not specified here, this also allows Conan's friendship with Jormma to be as closely knit as we see through the remainder of the Young Conan arc.

SAVSCO 227 (1-11)
KCO 9 FB
SAVSCO 227 (12-15)
COB 48 FB
Conan's 15th birthday/Day of Manhood, nothing changed here. Note that this is stated to be "weeks" before the Battle of Venarium.

COA (5:2-5:9) FB
Conan and Rion visit Venarium, "weeks" before the battle".

COB 233 (14-24)
COB 234
COB 235 (1-12:1)
Conan and Jormma's adventures here fit within the "weeks" between his Day of Manhood and the battle pretty nicely I think.

And onto the battle, where I'll briefly note what happens in each segment. One "issue" here is the apparent differences between the account in COB 235 and the others, particularly with regards to the appearance of Venarium, and whether the Cimmerians enter the city through the gate or over the walls. This is swiftly rectified in the framing story of COB 240, where a conversation between Conan and his Queen tells us that Conan's stories over the entire Young Conan arc may not have been the most accurate. Even so, I believe this order has few conflictions, though one must ignore Conan's constantly changing attire (helmet, etc.) and the time of day, as each artist depictis Conan and the battle in a different way:

COA 1 (12-13) FB - Rion, and then Conan speak to the assembled Cimmerians
COB 235 (12:2-14) - Conan continues speaking to the Cimmerians, who then ride for Venarium. Jormma possesses a woman to open the gate.
COB 8 (3:6) FB - Aquilonian soldiers atop the wall fire crossbows down upon the Cimmerians
COB 235 (15-17) - The woman opens the gate and dies, the Cimmerians storm through, Jormma mourns the death of the woman.
COB 8 (3:7) FB - Cimmerians descend over the wall (perhaps the defending soldiers retreated once the gate opened)
COB 145 (1) FB - Conan leaps over a wall (perhaps a smaller interior wall or fence, as Conan entered through the gate)
COB 8 (4:2) FB - Conan leaps over the wall
COB 145 (2:3-2:4) - A Cimmerian fights an Aquilonian
SAVSCO 6/2 (7-8) FB - Cimmerians fight the Aquilonians
COA 1 (1-10) - Conan and Cimmerians fight the Aquilonians, at the end Conan looks on with face illuminated, perhaps as...
COB 235 (18-21) - Jormma's anger finally erupts as an explosion in the heart of the fortress. The Cimmerians dominate the remaining soldiers
COA (11-21) - The battle ends, but Rion is killed
COB 235 (22) - After the battle, Conan finds that Jormma is alive
SAVSCO 6/2 (9-14) FB - After the battle, Conan sees a beautiful girl and chases her into a cave (Jormma not present, I'd guess that after the day he's had, he went back to recover at camp)
SAVSCO 6/2 - Conan vs. the People of the Dark. Though we aren't shown it, Conan must find his way back to the site of the battle
COA 1 (22) - Cimmerians burn the corpses of the fallen. Probably the evening after the battle (which took place before dawn)

Finally:
COB 235 (23)
Probably at least a couple of days after the battle, Conan and Jormma drink in a bar. The remainder of their adventures would continue from here.

Then, marking the couple of segments of the battle where Conan doesn't appear as BTS, we'd end up with:

CONAN
...
COB 233 (10-13)
SAVSCO 227 (1-11)
KCO 9 FB
SAVSCO 227 (12-15)
COB 48 FB
COA (5:2-5:9) FB
COB 233 (14-24)
COB 234
COB 235 (1-12:1)
COA 1 (12-13) FB
COB 235 (12:2-14)
COB 8 (3:6) FB BTS
COB 235 (15-17)
COB 8 (3:7) FB BTS
COB 145 (1) FB
COB 8 (4:2) FB
COB 145 (2:3-2:4) BTS
SAVSCO 6/2 (7-8) FB
COA 1 (1-10)
COB 235 (18-21)
COA (11-21)
COB 235 (22)
SAVSCO 6/2 (9-14) FB
SAVSCO 6/2
COA 1 (22)
COB 235 (23)
COB 236-FB
COB 236
COB 237
COB 238-FB
COB 238
COB 239
COB 240 (1 - 16)-FB
...

I'd also like to comment briefly on Conan's age here. As we know, the battle takes place "weeks" after Conan's 15th birthday, which itself takes place in "mid winter" (COB 48 FB), though at the time of the battle it is said that Conan "had not yet seen fifteen snows" (SAVSCO 6/2 (7-8) FB). The only way this can be the case is if we take all of these literally, and assume that it has not yet snowed during this winter season.

Well that's my two cents on the matter, feel free to have a look yourself and let me know what you think!

[wolverine7230]

Reading a little further in the chronology we have SAVSCO 74-FB. Here we see a young Conan, age unspecified, hunting boar with his friend Shard. At the end of the fb, Shard knocks Conan out, and specifically heads to Venarium to become a mercenary. Additionally, SAVSCO 83/2 takes place just before this in the chronology, where Conan is almost killed by demons for hunting boar for sport. Though admittedly a minor point, I feel the two together make a fair argument that SAVSCO 74 FB should be earlier in the chronology.

Personally, I think the best placement would be immediately before the section of the chronology that I reworked yesterday, so we'd have:

CONAN
...
SAVSCO 203/2
SAVSCO 74-FB *add*
COB 233 (10-13)
...

EDIT: Am I alright posting these on this thread or should I start a new thread for each suggested change?

[Russ Chappell]

I would start a new "thread" for each issue, at least. Also, corrections to chronologies shouldn't go in the Issue Analysis forum. They belong in the main Marvel Universe forum.

[wolverine7230]

Thanks Russ!