SECRET WARS to CIVIL WAR II

[StrayLamb]

I recently met C.B. Cebulski (new editor in chief) in Chicago at the C2E2 convention (twice actually, but I'll just talk about the relevant part). At one of the panels he made it clear (after one of my questions, natch) that Marvel's history didn't change after SECRET WARS; everything happened and some things got "fixed." (for example, Magneto died during Last Days and was alive afterwards. People assumed the past had slightly changed but no, he was resurrected by Xorn. It got "fixed") No, Cebulski wasn't EiC at the time, but this is the current editorial view that Marvel has: the past wasn't changed.

That was also confirmed by editor Jake Thomas in answer to my letter printed in BW8 12: "Secret Wars 2015 did not destroy untold years of of established continuity. The Marvel Universe was put back exactly as it was before the cascading collision of multiverses destroyed it. Some things came back slightly changed, but nothing too dramatic, certainly nothing that erased the stories you loved."

[wolverine7230]

That's very interesting and good to know.

[Aragorn45]

Does Doctor Strange's prose novel The Fate of Dreams by Devin Grayson occur in continuity?

[Siabod]

I have a question about the placement of Black Panther and Crew (and this Black Poster, and World of Wakanda)

Storm mentions in BP& Crew v#2 the terrigen cloud being a horror. This send to be a reference to DOX. Having read the list up to DOX, I can't see a reason the Black Panther books can't be moved

[Col_Fury]

Good eye! I completely missed that Terrigen cloud reference.

So we have:

BP:WWKND 4 (Ultimates formed, leads right in to #5)
BP6 1 ~ BP:WWKND 5 (shares scenes, happens at same time)
BP6 2-3 (continues from BP6 1)
DOX 1-4 (Terrigen Cloud revealed to be deadly to mutants)
A6 0 (after DOX, Ultimates already a group)
BP&CREW 1-6 (after DOX)
BP6 4-8

Thanks!

[StrayLamb]

We could probably add in the IvX flashbacks now that we've passed that point in CWII to SECEMP..

DOX 1-4 (Terrigen Cloud revealed to be deadly to mutants)
EXX 8/2-FB (X-Mansion moved to Limbo)
IvX 0 (1-9) {Eight Months Ago} (Very soon after DOX 1-4) [Henry McCoy & Iso begin working together on a cure for the Terrigen poisoning]

IvX 0 (10-16) {Six Months Ago} [Beast & Iso visit the RIV, giving Crystal a device based on Cerebro, which will allow them to scan for mutants in the path of the Terrigen cloud; Emma meets with Magneto and his team in Poland]

IvX 0 (17-21) {Four Months Ago} [Beast & Iso head to the Savage Land to set up a device check for Terrigen levels, while Emma Frost meets with young Henry McCoy, Bobby Drake and Scott Summers in Detroit]

Since we have DOX in September, and IvX in October of the following year, we may have to space those "Six Months Ago" and "Four Months Ago" accordingly. If "Eight Months Ago" is actually 13 months ago, then "Six Months Ago" would be nearly Ten months ago, say late November, and "Four Months Ago" would be around Six and a Half months ago, say early March..

[Siabod]

@Col Fury

However, editor's note in BP&CREW #3 says this story comes before the current BP series

[Col_Fury]

Would this work?

UINHS 8 (15)-FB (6 months before UINHS 8) (September?)
FCBD2015: A /2 (Johnny still in FF uniform) (before DOX)
DOX 1-4 (Terrigen Cloud revealed to be deadly to mutants)
EXX 8/2-FB (X-Mansion moved to Limbo)
BP&CREW 1-6 (after DOX, after DD5 17-20-FBs)
BK3 2-3-FB (preparing for Avengers roster change)
ULTS4 8-FB
BP:WWKND 4 (Ultimates formed)
BP6 1 ~ BP:WWKND 5
BP6 2-3
SQS4 1 (1 - 19:3)
AFOR2 1 (1-4:3)
A6 0 (after CM8 1, DOX 1-4; during SQS4 1; before ANADA 1, NA4 1, UA3 1, ULTS4 1, AFOR2 1, VIS3 1)
AFOR2 1 (4:4-20), 2-7 (a day or two after A6 0)
SQS4 1 (19:4 - 23)

[Siabod]

works for me (though I haven't read the flashbacks, but shouldn't make a difference)

[StrayLamb]

I see that in the main list, BP&CREW has been moved to immediately after CA:SAMW Flashbacks, which takes care of T'Challa learning about Project Kobik at the end of BP&CREW 6, but this places it before DOX, which is where the Terrigen cloud is shown to be toxic to mutants. Back on page 9 of this topic, the main list had DOX before CA:SAMW Flashbacks, and i can't see anywhere why DOX was was moved down the list.

Taking into consideration what Col_Fury wrote here...

BP:WWKND 1-6 fills in the backstory for some supporting characters.

BP:WWKND 1 starts “several months ago.” Pages 14-20 takes place during AvX.

BP:WWKND 2 goes from after AvX to INFINITY.

BP:WWKND 3 goes from INFINITY to SECRET WARS.

BP:WWKND 4 (1-4) takes place after SECRET WARS and before ULTS4 1 (and shortly before the formation of the Ultimates). (5-20) takes place the night after the Ultimates are formed.

BP:WWKND 5 picks up from #4’s end and overlaps with BP6 1. The Ultimates are already a thing in A6 0, so BP6 1 takes place before A6 0 (and ULTS4 1 of course).

BP:WWKND 6 has Black Panther bringing White Tiger (Kasper) out of “retirement.” Published the same month as BP6 13, it looks like White Tiger doesn’t appear again for another year after this. I guess this issue (which has basically nothing to do with the previous five) is in the current day and well after CWII.

BP&CREW 1-6 shows the (re-)formation of the Crew, which is already a thing by BP6 5. So, this takes place before BP6 1 (it’s getting crowded!). Spider-Miles is seen on a monitor in #2, so this is after SECRET WARS. Also, Daredevil is seen in his post-SECRET WARS suit on a monitor in the same issue, so after his ID is restored (that’s when he started wearing the new suit). Storm is wandering around Harlem so probably before the X-Mansion is relocated to Limbo.

Most likely we’re looking at:

SECRET WARS
DD5 17-20-FBs
BP&CREW 1-6
EXX 8/2-FB
BP:WWKND 4
BP6 1 ~ BP:WWKND 5
BP6 2-???
A6 0

... can DOX be moved back up the list, so that we end up like this..

UINHS 8 (15)-FB (6 months before UINHS 8) (September?)
FCBD2015: A /2 (Johnny still in FF uniform) (before DOX)
DOX 1-4 (Terrigen Cloud revealed to be deadly to mutants)
CA:SAMW flashbacks
BP&CREW 1-6 (after DD5 17-20-FBs)
EXX 8/2-FB (X-Mansion moved to Limbo)
CM8 1-5 (Capt. Marvel put in charge of Alpha Flight)
BK3 2-3-FB (preparing for Avengers roster change)
ULTS4 8-FB
BP:WWKND 4 (Ultimates formed)
BP6 1 ~ BP:WWKND 5
BP6 2-3
UINHS 8 (10-13)-FB (7 months before UINHS 8) (August?)
SBRAND&NMASK 1-6 (mid-August)
UX4 7-FB (before DOX)
UX4 12-FB
KARNAK 1-6
V:SK 1-6
DRAX 1-11
SQS4 1 (1 - 19:3)
AFOR2 1 (1-4:3)
A6 0 (after CM8 1, DOX 1-4; during SQS4 1; before ANADA 1, NA4 1, UA3 1, ULTS4 1, AFOR2 1, VIS3 1)
AFOR2 1 (4:4-20), 2-7 (a day or two after A6 0)
SQS4 1 (19:4 - 23)

[Siabod]

I think BK3 should actually BK4

Both comics.org and marvel wikia has a one-shot listed in 2010 https://www.comics.org/series/40382/, http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Knight_Vol_3

[Col_Fury]

Somehow I missed these.

DPV.GAM 1-5 features Fat Cobra as a supporting cast member, who references his run-ins with Iron Fist, so this is at least fairly “current.” Loki appears in his standard Kirby-era appearance (which hasn’t been the case since SIEGE), but I’m not too worried about that (he changes his appearance – and gender! – on a fairly consistent basis). Heck, he changes his appearance throughout this mini. As long as this is after the kid-Loki stuff I’m fine with it.

Odin appears in charge of Asgard, (published the same months as MT2 8-11). As long as this happens before MT2 9 things should be fine for him.

Doctor Voodoo appears in #2, so this is at a time when Deadpool is an Avenger.

She-Hulk appears, so this is before CWII (this was published at the same time as CWII). Published at the same time as DP6 13-19.

There are some flashbacks to somewhere between “sometime” and “years” ago that we’ll have to find placements for:

DPV.GAM 1-FB is the last time Deadpool and Gambit had a job together; Spider-Man and Daredevil appear. Daredevil’s in his classic suit and Spider-Man and Daredevil know who each other are in their civilian identities. I’d put this before DD gets his secret ID back, so shortly after SECRET WARS.

DPV.GAM 3-FB is “years ago,” involves Scrambler and a land deal in Florida. It’s extended in #4-FB, which features the Marauders fighting Wolverine and X-23. She-Hulk appears as Scrambler’s lawyer shortly after this fight (and she’s still his lawyer in the current day in #5). Obviously, this is at a point before Wolverine dies, but also at a point before he loses his healing factor. That would be before INFINITY and before W5 1-13. Given Loki’s appearance in this flashback, it would also have to be before SIEGE. So yeah, “years ago” works.

*

DO:TS? 1-4 was published online before it saw print, and hit the internet at roughly the same time DPV.GAM was published. Ant-Man (same as ASTONANT 8-11), Doctor Strange (same as DS4 8-10), Howard the Duck (same as HTD5 7-10), Punisher (same as P11 1-4), Rocket Raccoon & Groot (same as GOTG4 8-11 and RR&GROOT 5-8), and Squirrel Girl (USSQG2 8-11) appear. Also, same as DP6 11-17. An editor’s note places this before Last Days of Magic. She-Hulk appears, so this is also before CWII. Ant-Man still has his business, so before that shuts down and therefore before ASTONANT 6-11-FBs.

Here looks pretty good:

USQG2 8-10
DP:TS? 1-4
ANADA 9 / NO6 7 / FCBD2016:CWII /2
ANADA 10-12
USQG2 11
MOCK 3
MOCK 1 (16-18)-FB
GOI 1-8
DPV.GAM 1-5
DP6 13 (between DD5 7-8, PM&IF3 4-5)
USQGBUM/U

[Michael]

There's a pretty narrow window for a flashback with X-23 and Loki to take place, if you assume that Loki is in his own body and not Sif's. Wolverine and X-23 first meet in X-Men 450. Loki dies in Thor 85, published the same month, and when he comes back, he's in Sif's body- he doesn't get his own body back until Thor 602 and he dies less than a year later in Siege. So the flashback would have to take place either immediately before Thor 85 or between Thor 602 and Siege.

[StrayLamb]

As well as the IvX flashbacks mentioned above (http://www.chronologyproject.com/phpbb2 ... 180#p54734), CA:SR 2 (6-10)-FB needs to be placed somewhere just before the CA:SW flashbacks..

[Siabod]

I have some questions about OML #1. I know this has been discussed a bit, most recently by Wolverine.

There seems to be some conflicting evidence in different books, with the list

In OML #1 we see Logan pick a newspaper that shows the Avengers stopping a heist, presumibly the one shown in FCBD 2015

However, in extraordinary X-Men 1, Jean says that she scanned the world after the indent with Cyclops, and came upon Logan's mind. Is she referring to Cyclops's death in DOX, meaning Logan has been around since then. Or when young Scott was feared dead ( ANX2 #7) when the catacombs collapsed, meaning he's been around since then, which is a little later than the list.

Either way OML #1 needs to be earlier on the list, which means

ANADA 1-3 (team forms)
FCBD2015:A ("1st day as Avengers" for the kids)

Needs to be moved earlier

OML #3-4 is unaffected by moving #1

Am I getting this wrong, missing something?. Or is to too hard to untangle?