SECRET WARS to CIVIL WAR II

[wolverine7230]

Carnage 1-5 happens relatively shortly after the Carnage segment of ANAD Point One
Carnage 7 (2-20)-8 Flashbacks - Occur during the “13 days” between 5 and 7, specifically “11 nights” before 7
Carnage 9-10 Flashbacks "Five days" and “Four days” before 7
Carnage 6, 7 (1), 9 (1-3), 10 (1, 20), 11 (1-2) “April 26th-27th”
Carnage 11 (3-20)-16 (1-19) takes place "42 hours" after 11 (1-2)
Carnage 16 (20) takes place "five days" after the main parts of 11-16

So we'd have:
ANAD Marvel Point One (Early April)
Carnage 1-5 (April 14)
Carnage 7-8 FBs (April 16)
Carnage 9-10 FBs (April 25-26)
Carnage 6-10 Modern day segments & 11 (1-2) (April 26-30)
Carnage 11 (3-20)-16 (1-19) (May 2)
Carnage 11 (20) (May 7)

This actually helps us a lot to pin down exactly when Contest of Champions takes place. Assuming the final incursion took place in late July, that would mean the "Eight month" time gap would end towards the end of March, right before this sequence of events. I can't quite remember if an actual passage of time between ANAD Point One and CoC 1 is mentioned in Contest of Champions, and if this is not the case I would think that we should minimise this passage of time as much as we possibly can, in order to maximise the amount of room we have to work with afterwards, considering Civil War II 3 takes place on "July 19th", and if memory serves there are several large time gaps in the first few issues of the event. This would place the start of Civil War II in late June, and we can't forget that "four week" gap in Invincible Iron Man that Tony can't appear in. Of course it is very possible that a lot of series take place during the eight month gap or during the start of Civil War II.

Little bit of food for thought...

[wolverine7230]

Thought I'd take a look at A Year of Marvels as well, continuing the theme from Carnage of exact dates:

AYOM: The Amazing 1/1 (Originally February infinite comic): Evening of Valentine's day (Feb 14) [Spider-Man]
AYOM: The Amazing 1/2 (Originally March infinite comic): Florida Spring Break 2016 (Mar 11-13) [Ant-Man]
AYOM: The Incredible 1/1 (Originally April infinite comic): references Thor in Texas recently [D-Man, Spider-Man]
AYOM: The Incredible 1/2 (Originally May infinite comic): Mother's Day (May 8) [Wolverine, She-Hulk]
AYOM: The Unstoppable 1/1 (Originally June infinite comic): Father's Day (June 19) according to solicitations, second part "2 weeks later" [Nova, Iron Man] - Nova here after issue 4 of his own series
AYOM: The Unstoppable 1/2 (Originally July infinite comic): Independance Day (July 4) [Winter Soldier]

The rest of this series (The Unbeatable, The Uncanny, X-Mas Special and New Year's Special) all occur after Civil War II.

[wolverine7230]

Took another look at Contest of Champions, and here is what I've got:

Contest of Champions 6 (1-3) FB: Elders of the Universe go to the remains of Battleworld and find Maestro, set up the contest.
Contest of Champions 6 (4-8) FB: Contest starts, only Maestro and Punisher 2099 remain.
Contest of Champions 4 (2) FB: "Three weeks" before CoC 1
All-New, All Different Marvel Point One: Maestro looks at potential champions
Contest of Champions 1/2: Guillotine is abducted.
Contest of Champions 1-2
Contest of Champions 3-6: Occur in quick succession, likely the day after 1-2
Contest of Champions 7-10: Some time after 3-6

[wolverine7230]

Taking into account all the new information, I've taken the liberty of organising it all:
One thing to note - anything I can I've put into the four week gap where Tony has disappeared, just because it's such a significant amount of time, and realistically Standoff has to take place almost as soon as he gets back, which would be around Early June, in order to have enough time for all the events between Standoff and Civil War II to take place.

SECRET WARS (Late July)
Contest of Champions 6 (1-3) FB
Old Man Logan 1-4
Death of X 1-4
Howard the Duck 2 (20) FB “8 Months ago”
Howard the Duck 1/2-3/2
Howard the Duck 7
Unbeatable Squirrel Girl 6
Howard the Duck 6
Howard the Duck 2 (3-10) FB “6 Months Ago”
ANAD Marvel Point One rocket raccoon and groot segment [October 31]
Howard the Duck 4 (9) FB “5 Months Ago”
Totally Awesome Hulk [November?]
Ant-Man Annual 1 (5-25) FB
Avengers: Rage of Ultron (1-94)
Ant-Man Annual 1
Avengers: Rage of Ultron (95-99)
Spider-Man 1-2 (1-19)
Captain Marvel 1-5
ASM 1/4, 1/3, 1/6 [Jess 6 Months Pregnant]
Silk 1
Howard the Duck 1 (1) FB “3 Months Ago”
Howard the Duck 2 (11-13) FB “3 Months Ago”
A Year of Marvels: The Amazing 1/1 [February 14th]
A Year of Marvels: The Amazing 1/2 [March 11th-13th]
Howard the Duck 1 (4-7) FB “1 Month Ago”
Secret Wars #9 (25-34) “Eight months later” [Late March]
Spider-Woman 1 (1-15) [Jess 34 Weeks Pregnant]
Contest of Champions 6 (4-8) FB
Contest of Champions 4 (2) FB
All-New, All Different Marvel Point One [Early April]
Spider-Woman 1 (16-20)-4
Avengers 0
A-Force 1-7
Contest of Champions 1/2
Uncanny Avengers 1-4
Squadron Supreme 1-5
Howling Commandos of SHIELD 1-5
A Year of Marvels: The Incredible 1/1 [April]
Carnage 1-5 [April 14th]
Carnage 7-8 FB [April 16th]
Invincible Iron Man 1-2 (1-12)
Carnage 9-10 FB [April 25th-26th]
Carnage 6-10 Modern Day Sections & 11 (1-2) [April 26th-30th]
Carnage 11 (3-20)-16 (1-19) [May 2nd]
Contest of Champions 1-6
All-New, All Different Avengers 1-3
FCBD 2015: All-New, All Different Avengers (1st Story)
Carnage 11 (20) [May 7th]
A Year of Marvels: The Incredible 1/2 [May 8th]
Daredevil 17-20 FBs
Howard the Duck 1-5 (1-14)
Ultimates 1-2
Howard the Duck 5 (15-20), 8-11
Doctor Strange 1-2
Invincible Iron Man 2 (13-20)-8
Contest of Champions 6 (19-20)-10
Drax 1-11
Captain America: Sam Wilson 1-7
New Avengers 1-7
Uncanny Avengers 5-6
Black Widow 1-10
Black Knight 1-5
Invincible Iron Man 9-11
Nova 1-4
All-New, All Different Avengers 4-6
Ms Marvel 1-3
Agents of SHIELD 1-2
AVENGERS: STANDOFF!
Agents of SHIELD 5-6
Captain America: Sam Wilson 9
New Avengers 11
Thunderbolts 1-4
Ms Marvel 4-6
Uncanny Avengers 9-12
All-New, All Different Avengers 9 (1-18) / FCBD 2016: Civil War II (2nd Story)
Nova 5-7 / All-New, All Different Avengers 9 (19-20)
All-New, All Different Avengers 10-12
Captain America: Steve Rogers 1-3
A Year of Marvels: The Unstoppable 1/1 first bit [June 19th]
Spider-Man 2 (20)-5
CIVIL WAR II Starts (Late June or Early July)
A Year of Marvels: The Unstoppable 1/1 last bit [Early July]
A Year of Marvels: The Unstoppable 1/2 [July 4th]

TO DO:
All-New, All Different Avengers Annual 1
All-New Hawkeye 1-6
All-New Inhumans 1-11
All-New Wolverine 1-9
All-New X-Men 1-?
Amazing Spider-Man 1-?
Amazing Spider-Man/Silk: Spiderfly Effect 1-4
Angela: Queen of Hel 1-7
Astonishing Ant-Man 1-?
Black Panther 1-6
Daredevil 1-?
Daredevil/Punisher: Seventh Circle 1-4
Deadpool 1-13
Deadpool and Cable: Split Second 1-5
Deadpool and the Mercs for Money 1-3
Deadpool: Back in Black 1-5
Deadpool: Massacre
Deadpool vs Gambit 1-5
Doctor Strange 3-?
Doctor Strange/Punisher: Magic Bullets 1-4
Extraordinary X-Men 1-?
FCBD 2015 Avengers [2nd Story]
FCBD 2016 Captain America [2nd Story]
Ghost Rider 1-5
Guardians of Infinity 1-8
Guardians of the Galaxy 1-10
Hercules 1-6
Hyperion 1-6
Illuminati 1-5, 7
International Iron Man 1-?
Karnak 1-6
Mighty Thor 1-14
Mockingbird 1-5
Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur 1-?
Moon Knight 1-?
Nighthawk 1-6
Old Man Logan 5-?
Patsy Walker AKA Hellcat 1-7
Power Man and Iron Fist 1-5
Punisher 1-?
Red Wolf 1-6
Rocket Raccoon and Groot 1-7
Scarlet Witch 1-8
Silk 2-?
Silver Surfer 1-?
Spider-Gwen 1-?
Spider-Man/Deadpool 1-?
Spider-Man 2099 1-12
Spider-Woman 5-8
Spider-Women: Alpha
Spider-Women: Omega
Squadron Supreme 6-8
Starbrand and Nightmask 1-6
Star-Lord 1-8
Totally Awesome Hulk 5-6
Ultimates 3-7
Unbeatable Squirrel Girl 1-5, 7-?
Unbelievable Gwenpool 1-?
Uncanny Inhumans 1-10
Uncanny X-Men 1-?
Venom: Space Knight 1-10
Vision 1-?
Vote Loki 1-4
Weapon X 1-?
Web Warriors 1-?
Weirdworld 1-6
X-Men '92 1-?
X-Men: Worst X-Man Ever 1-5 (Canon?)

[StrayLamb]

Civil War II itself takes place over quite a long period of time, so other series could certainly take place during the early phase at least.

There's a fair bit of overlap of dates between Carnage, Silk, and Spider-Woman.:

Silk 2
Silk 3 (1-7) [Silk has now been working at the Fact Channel as a full-time employee for two weeks]
Silk 3 (8-20) [Silk attends her weekly session with Dr Sinclair]
Silk 4
Silk 5 (2-20)
Carnage 7 (20:2) [Carnage arrives in Jakarta]
Carnage 8
Carnage 9 (4-20)
Carnage 10 (2-19)
Carnage 6 {April 26-27}
Carnage 7 (1) [The team tells Jubulile she’s safe now with them]
Silk 6 [Another weekly meeting with Sinclair; Mockingbird & Spider-Woman load Phil Urich into a paddy wagon & send him to the Cellar, and Jess says she will be seeing Silk on the weekend]

The following Spider-Woman and Silk issues take place on E-65, so not really part of this chronology, but it starts and finishes on E-616..

Carnage 9 (1-3)
Carnage 10 (1)
Carnage 10 (20)
Carnage 11 (1-2)
Spider-Women Alpha 1 {May 1}
Carnage 11 (3-19) [42 hours later]{May 2}
Carnage 12
Carnage 13
Carnage 14
Carnage 15
Carnage 16 (1-19)
Spider-Gwen 7 (1-17) {May 2}
Silk 7 (1-15)
Spider-Gwen 7 (18-20)
Silk 7 (16-20)
Spider-Woman 6 {May 3}
Spider-Woman 7 (1-8)
Spider-Gwen 8
Silk 8
Spider-Woman 7 (9-11)
Spider-Woman 7 (12-20)
Spider-Women Omega 1 (1-26)
Spider-Women Omega 1 (27-30) {May 8}

End of Spider-Women E-65 crossover

Silk 9 {May 10}
Silk 10 (2-17) {May 11}
Silk 10 (1)
Silk 10 (18-20)
Silk 11 (2-7)
Carnage 16 (20)
Silk 11 (8-19) [Cindy has another weekly session with Sinclair]{May 17}
Silk 11 (1)
Silk 11 (20)
Silk 12
Silk 13

Spider-Woman 8 seems to take place in late August, and Assault on Pleasant Hill seems to take place in September.. i tipped Civil War II over into the following year in my own chronology.. 'cause there's still a lot of stuff to put in there, including issues set at christmas, that have to come first..

Spider-Woman 9 occurs during Civil War II..

[wolverine7230]

Spider-Woman 8 seems to take place in late August, and Assault on Pleasant Hill seems to take place in September.. i tipped Civil War II over into the following year in my own chronology.. 'cause there's still a lot of stuff to put in there, including issues set at christmas, that have to come first..

What's your reasoning as to Spider-Woman 8 taking place in August, and Assault on Pleasant Hill in September? I can't remember seeing anything that suggests that, but I could certainly be overlooking something. While I can see why you would push Civil War II back by a year, from my own notes this could perhaps be a little much? Would definitely be interested in hearing out some more of your reasoning!

[StrayLamb]

Go on - put me on the spot!

Spider-Woman 8 takes place during a summer storm. All-New X-Men 1-8 also specifically takes place during the summer, and seems to fit immediately before SW 8 and Assault!

Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill Alpha 1 (1-5) [A SHIELD sentry shift aboard Hellicarrier Iliad, breaks into Central Command, which is closed down for maintenance, and hacks into the NFL Sunday Football game, when the doors are exploded, and Winter Soldier enters, extracting the agent who said he could hack anything, and taking him to Level 9 to extract some files, then having him wipe the servers; he is debriefed by Steve Rogers, who then reflects that Bucky has destroyed four clandestine SHIELD operations in the past few days; searching Central Command, Steve finds a clue left for him by Bucky] {Early autumn; Sept ? NFL Sunday Match}

I blame Bendis and his career of including ill-considered dates in his comics. July 19th for the death of Bruce Banner is very specific. I don't live in the US, and i confess to a lack of knowledge of American NFL Sunday match football, but i had it on good authority from an acquaintance that it had to fall between early September and early January. Maybe that's completely bogus. But if it's true, then Pleasant Hill has to occur in September at the earliest, and the NFL Sunday Match is as specific a reference as July 19, and even more essential to the plot of that issue.

[wolverine7230]

Well honestly I don't know why I expected any less from Marvel! Here's what I have to say on all this so far:
- I confess to not having read Spider-Woman 8 so can't really throw back anything there
- Extraordinary X-Men 1 overlaps with the end of Old Man Logan 4, which could definitely take place in August. If we assume Death of X happens at some point during the first arc of OML, is there anything stopping All-New X-Men from happening this early as well?
- I had completely forgotten about the NFL reference and that is truly a problem at this stage. I live in the UK but me and my mates keep up with American football when we can, and yeah your acquaintance would be correct that the main season runs from September to December/Early January. The playoffs are next concluding with the Superbowl in early February, which is certainly a long shot from my estimate of late May/early June for the Assault on Pleasant Hill.

So while the NFL certainly puts us in a bit of a situation, I disagree with your statement that it is as concrete as a date. I could definitely see this being played off as a charity or promotional match being played in the Summer. Honestly, though, I'd say it entirely depends on if we're going for the 1 year or 2 year model between Secret Wars and Civil War II. I'd definitely push for the 1 year concept, as adding another year certainly the complete opposite of the usual removal of years that would be associated with Marvel time. Also, I'd say that the continued reference to "2016" across several series is evidence enough of the one year model.

Then again, the New Year's Eve Special infinite comic which (surprise surprise) takes place at New Year, features both a de-aged Steve Rogers and a Tony-looking Iron Man... Then again, I haven't read much beyond Civil War II so I have no clue if it's at all possible for him to be present here.

[Russ Chappell]

i tipped Civil War II over into the following year in my own chronology.. 'cause there's still a lot of stuff to put in there, including issues set at christmas, that have to come first..

Just a note of caution. If you want to design a timeline of events, you're welcome to post it here. But if you're looking for the final listings to reflect your work, re-examine the emphasis that you're putting on calendar placement. Take a look back at how Col Fury has designed his spines. You'll see very few references to dates in his placements. It's based almost entirely on events and characters in the stories. If you find yourself placing Christmas stories and Valentine's stories on a calendar, you'll ultimately be faced with one of three choices:

• Pulling Christmas stories from 6 different years and placing them on the same day.

• Finding dates for 6 different Christmases during your calendar year.

• Mary Jane Watson is 75 years old.

[Clive_Reston]

Moving the first arc of ANAD Avengers to before Howard the Duck and the Daredevil flashbacks is not an issue, and doing so is the easiest thing to do.

To clarify, the first arc of ANAD Avengers seems (but only from that one Daredevil panel that can be explained away) to take place before the Daredevil flashbacks, and the Daredevil flashbacks (which make his identity secret again) have to happen before Howard the Duck #7... which is way up at the beginning of the chronology, since HtD's "real-time" sections go 7 [time elapses], 6 [time elapses], 1-5 [with the first two Ultimates during it] immediately followed by 8-11. And moving ANADAv 1-3 to before HtD 7 drags a WHOLE lot of stuff with it.

(Also, I agree that in-story dates/holidays should be treated as "topical references" whenever possible, rather than as a clock.)

[StrayLamb]

I had everything going very nicely in my personal chronology, when i read that very specific July 19, and threw the issue at the wall. After banging my head into the table several times, i explained my dilemma to my darling wife, who looked all sweet and innocent, and said "well, it must be the following year." I'm afraid i couldn't fault her logic. So yeah, i know it should be the same year, but it really works easier if you tip it into the next year. It's gonna be one of those years when 2016 comes around twice, with at least two christmasses. It's happened before, will again.

Just scanning ahead quickly in my notes, we've got ASM 1.1-1.4 occuring in mid-December, unless that's supposed to be the previous December, Gwenpool Special 1, which occurs on Christmas Eve, unless that's also the previous December, although i seem to remember trying to fit it into the previous December, but found there was a problem with that.

Logan's not in Death of X, because he hasn't arrived on E-616 yet, or hasn't made himself known.

Old Man Logan 1-4 has to take place after Ms Marvel and Spider-Miles join the Avengers,and after Amadeus Cho takes on the mantle of the Hulk. The first thing he reads is a newspaper article on the two joining the Avengers. It appears that different people from E-1610 arrived at different times.

I have Extraordinary X-Men 1-7 after this.

Old Man Logan 5-7 takes place just before the ice road in far north Alaska closes, making it mid-late March (according to Wikipedia).

I have Old Man Logan 8-13 in April just prior to the Carnage issues.

[StrayLamb]

Just a note of caution. If you want to design a timeline of events, you're welcome to post it here. But if you're looking for the final listings to reflect your work, re-examine the emphasis that you're putting on calendar placement. Take a look back at how Col Fury has designed his spines. You'll see very few references to dates in his placements. It's based almost entirely on events and characters in the stories. If you find yourself placing Christmas stories and Valentine's stories on a calendar, you'll ultimately be faced with one of three choices:

• Pulling Christmas stories from 6 different years and placing them on the same day.

• Finding dates for 6 different Christmases during your calendar year.

• Mary Jane Watson is 75 years old.

I get that.. it's just us kids playing in the sand pit while waiting for Col_Fury to pitch the authoritative version. At least that's my position at this stage. It's all just speculation. Oh, and option 2 is my take. No 75yo MJ's for me, thanks.

[Clive_Reston]

A few more notes:

Spidey is definitely out-of-continuity.

Red Wolf: All but the final page of #1 takes place in 1872. The rest of the series, as far as I can tell, can go literally anywhere before Occupy Avengers begins.

Unbeatable Squirrel Girl: Jubilee and Punisher have to be available for #2, but that's the only contingency in the first five issues. (Although the Dr. Doom in #2-5 has just time-traveled from immediately after M/S-H3 8/3!) #7 is sometime after Ultimates #2 (Galactus is wearing his old purple outfit, but explains that he's now the Lifebringer, and anyway perceptions of Galactus are well-established to be relative...). She's with the New Avengers in #8; Tony Stark is responding to texts as of a week before #10, and sending them in #13. Scott Lang is running Ant-Man Security Solutions in #13-14, so that's somewhere before the end of Astonishing Ant-Man. Iron Man, Peter/Spider-Man, Ms. Marvel, Taskmaster, Hellcat, America, Amadeus/Hulk and Sam/Captain America all need to be available for #15. Lots of breaks: the stories go 6 [see Howard the Duck], 1, 2-5, 7, 8-10, 11, 12-14, 15.

The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl Beats Up the Marvel Universe: the Avengers fought the High Evolutionary "eleven weeks ago" (this appears to be an untold story). Lots of characters appear, but the placement-relevant ones seem to be Iron Man, Peter/Spider-Man, Jane/Thor, Scott/Ant-Man, Sam/Captain America, Magneto and Flash/Venom.

[StrayLamb]

(Also, I agree that in-story dates/holidays should be treated as "topical references" whenever possible, rather than as a clock.)

Character appearances and story elements trump dates - that's already established on this site. However, Marvel has recently gone to great pains to show the passage of seasons in its comics, and i don't think we should dismiss the writers/editors apparent intentions for placement of their stories unless we have to because a) character appearances make it necessary, or b) story elements make it necessary.

While Marvel continues to publish issues containing christmas stories every calendar year, the characters will experience christmas four or five times an E-616 year. I don't see that as a problem. It's a fantasy world, where time doesn't run the way it does here.

[Russ Chappell]

While Marvel continues to publish issues containing christmas stories every calendar year, the characters will experience christmas four or five times an E-616 year. I don't see that as a problem.

If that's true, in wolverine7230's post above, you can't assume that Valentine's Day is February 14, or Independence Day is July 4, since those holidays, too, can occur four or five times a year.

It's a fantasy world, where time doesn't run the way it does here.

And one could argue, that's why placing events on a calendar doesn't make sense.