SECRET WARS to CIVIL WAR II

[StrayLamb]

That must be the "in anticipation of Christmas Eve party." The heroes probably got together early, knowing full well that something was going to blow up in their faces over Christmas.

[Sataniel]

Firstly, Uncanny Avengers Vol. 3 #5-6. The stories indicate that:
1. Synapse took a break after the death of her grandfather.
2. Cable was basically hanging constantly with the team.

After those issues Synapse is back with the team and Cable goes to fix his time-travel tech. Currently, Black Knight Vol. 4 and Squadron Supreme Vol. 4 #2-3 which feature Unity Division with Synapse and without Cable sit between UA3 #4 and #5 which doesn't really make sense. Reading through almost everything (I've only skipped everything GotG related, Red Wolf and HtD main story) I haven't really seen anything that would force such late placement. So, UA3 #5-6 should be moved before those.

Speaking of which, that's some heavily unnatural cluster of "going to Weirdworld" stories. I can't really follow direct time references out of that list well, but shouldn't it be possible to uncluster those at least partially?

The second thing I wanted to mention is Standoff. The exact timeline is in the separate thread, but since it is relevant to this I will just comment on it wholesale here and only quote the post here for notifications sake.

chronology for Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill

The two chronologies are currently inconsistent with each other.

To put the compressed version of the current Standoff chronology into the context of this chronology:

HCSHIELD 1-5 (shortly before Standoff!)
CASW 4-6 (2-3 weeks after CASW 1-3)
NA4 7
TAH 1-4
NO6 5-6
DD5 1-5
HTD5 1-3 (Gwenpool backups)
GP SPEC (Spider-Woman pregnant): Christmas Eve
ILLUM 1-5 (right before Standoff!)
AOSHIELD 1-2 (lead-in to Standoff!)
Avengers Standoff: Welcome to Pleasant Hill 1
Howling Commandos of SHIELD 6 (8-9)
Uncanny Avengers 7 (1-3)
Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill Alpha 1 (1-5)
Agents of SHIELD II 1
Agents of SHIELD II 2
Agents of SHIELD II 3 (1-5:3)
All-New, All-Different Avengers 7 (1-3)
Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill Alpha 1 (6-30)
Howling Commandos of SHIELD 6 (1-7)
Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill Alpha 1 (31-34)
Captain America: Sam Wilson 7/1 (12-21:4)
All-New, All-Different Avengers 7 (4-11)
Captain America: Sam Wilson 7/1 (21:5-28)
Captain America: Sam Wilson 7/1 (1-5)
Uncanny Avengers 7 (4-19:1)
All-New, All-Different Avengers 7 (12-13)
Uncanny Avengers 7 (19:2-20)
All-New, All-Different Avengers 7 (14-20)
Captain America: Sam Wilson 7/1 (29-33)
Captain America: Sam Wilson 7/1 (6-11)
Captain America: Sam Wilson 7/1 (34-40)
Uncanny Avengers 8
All-New, All-Different Avengers 8 (1-18)
Captain America: Sam Wilson 8 (1-19:3)
All-New, All-Different Avengers 8 (19-20)
Captain America: Sam Wilson 8 (19:4-20)
Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill Omega 1(1-24)
Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill Omega 1 (29:6-30)
Agents of SHIELD II 3 (5:4-18)
New Avengers 8 (1-10)
Agents of SHIELD II 3 (19-20)
New Avengers 8 (11-17) ~ Agents of SHIELD 4 (1-9)
Agents of SHIELD II 4 (10-13)
New Avengers 8 (18-19) ~ Agents of SHIELD 4 (14-17)
Agents of SHIELD II 4 (18-20)
Agents of SHIELD II 5
Agents of SHIELD II 6
New Avengers 8 (20)
New Avengers 9
New Avengers 10
Illuminati 6
Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill Omega 1 (25-26, 28-29:4, 31-32:4)
Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill Omega 1 (32:5-34)
Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill Omega 1 (27)
AOSHIELD 5-6 (aftermath of Standoff!)
ILLUM 7 (right after Standoff!)

So the first thing:
Howling Commandos of SHIELD 6 (8-9) happens between HCSHIELD 3 and 4. There is no reason for Duggan to delay getting Orrgo back after he learned that Kraye shipped him off and why (so maybe one, maybe few days max.), so HCSHIELD 1-5 should probably be moved just before the event proper.

The second thing is the placement of the Agents of SHIELD which is doubled and somewhat different between the outer and inner chronology. I would say the placement for the beginning is right in the Standoff chronology, but there is a matter of how the later issues are placed in regards to the New Avengers.

Basically, AOS follow here directly from their confrontation with NA and NA issues are put later. But, AOS #6 which has to follow directly from #5 show heroes who were involved into Pleasant Hills situation outside of it, so the crisis had to be resolved already.

Meanwhile, at around the end of New Avengers #10 we are told by Duggan that Hill's status is still unknown, so it has to happen while the crisis is still ongoing.

This creates a problem with the Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill Omega where it is shown that the SHIELD agents outside didn't know about the crisis until they received the distress signal and then SHIELD appears Duggan included, but since they had to know anyway due to HCSHIELD, I would say let's ignore that detail and just put the NA10 (of course with stuff leading to it) before SHIELD air raid.

And the last thing - everything else has precisely placed flashbacks, but Illuminati 6 doesn't. There is another contradiction here. In AS:AoPHO, Absorbing Man is shown fighting against the Avengers in the combat montage, int Illuminati he runs away instantly when he sees them arriving and meets Hood and Titania who take him and Whirlwind away. I would ignore the montage, as he is a background character here.

So taking into account that Avengers Standoff: Welcome to Pleasant Hill happens over a long time, and Zemo has to prepare the revolt, the beginning after shifting should go:

CASW 4-6 (2-3 weeks after CASW 1-3)
NA4 7
TAH 1-4
NO6 5-6
DD5 1-5
HTD5 1-3 (Gwenpool backups)
GP SPEC (Spider-Woman pregnant): Christmas Eve
Avengers Standoff: Welcome to Pleasant Hill 1
HCSHIELD 1-5 (shortly before Standoff!) + Howling Commandos of SHIELD 6 (8-9)
ILLUM 1-5 (right before Standoff!)
Uncanny Avengers 7 (1-3)
Avengers Standoff: Assault on Pleasant Hill Alpha 1 (1-5)
Agents of SHIELD II 1
Agents of SHIELD II 2
Agents of SHIELD II 3 (1-5:3)
All-New, All-Different Avengers 7 (1-3)

But I'm not sure about the exact splitting of AS:AoPHO to place NA and partially AoS there and about the exact place for Illuminati flashbacks.

[StrayLamb]

The DS5 9 (11-13)-FB which occurs on March 28, 2016 will need to go in here somewhere, possibly just before Spring Break..

---
OML2 5-7
ANX@2 1
DS5 9 (11-13)-FB
AYOM/:A /2 (Spring Break)
SM/DP 1-3 (after ASM4 1 & SM/DP 6)
AYOM/:I (April Fools)
---

[michel]

There's a problem with Black Panther, precisely with Ayo and Aneka. The story of the two Dora Milaje is told in BP:WWKNDA.
In BP:WWKNDA 4 (1 - 4), they are assigned to accompany the Black Panther as he creates a new alliance called the Ultimates, and we see them in this role in ULTS4 8 (1 - 7)-FB.
Then, in BP6 1 and BP:WWKNDA 5, Aneka is sentenced to death by Ramonda, Ayo frees her and they flee, leaving the Dora Milaje and becoming the Midnight Angels.

The problem is that they appear in ULTS4 1-2 with the Black Panther in the first mission of the Ultimates, they are named in #2. And in Col_Fury listing, we have ULTS4 1-2 way after BP6 1. We have BP6 1-8 before Avengers Standoff, and ULTS4 1-2 after it.

ULTS4 1-2 will be hard to move earlier, because Galactus becomes gold here and is still purple in HTD5 4-FB. I'm gonna re-read BP6 1-8 to see if it can be pushed forward.

Edit : I didn't see anything that prevent to have BP6 1-8 after ULTS4 1-2. Any thoughts?

[michel]

ANW@ 1 (before SGWEN2 7-8)
SILK2 2, ASM&SILK:SFE 1-4, SILK2 3-8 / SW6 6-7 / SGWEN2 7-8 / SWMEN A & O: April-May

In ANW@ 1, Reed Richards from Earth-65 comes to the Stacys' house and tells George "Your daughter and I are friends." But Reed and Gwen meet in SGWEN2 7 during the Spider-Women crossover (when she rescues him from S.I.L.K.agents, she tells Jessica Drew "Clearly they're after this kid, but why?").
There's a three-week gap between pages 26 and 27 of SWMEN:O, I would put ANW@ 1 here.

[Leoparis]

I wanted to mention here the problem caused by the temporal break in HTD5 5, which led to the wrongful insertion of other Howard the Duck appearances in that break in spite of a clear warning from Clive Reston that additional Howard appearances should not be inserted if such a temporal break is implemented.

cf. https://chronologyproject.com/phpbb2/vi ... =2&t=18753

My solution is to keep together HTD5 5 and HTD5 8-11 (HTD5 6 & 7 occur earlier in the continuity).

[Beifica]

Firstly, Uncanny Avengers Vol. 3 #5-6. The stories indicate that:
1. Synapse took a break after the death of her grandfather.
2. Cable was basically hanging constantly with the team.

After those issues Synapse is back with the team and Cable goes to fix his time-travel tech. Currently, Black Knight Vol. 4 and Squadron Supreme Vol. 4 #2-3 which feature Unity Division with Synapse and without Cable sit between UA3 #4 and #5 which doesn't really make sense. Reading through almost everything (I've only skipped everything GotG related, Red Wolf and HtD main story) I haven't really seen anything that would force such late placement. So, UA3 #5-6 should be moved before those.

(...)

I want to say that I agree with this comment.

I'm at this point in my reading and it doesn't make sense to split UA3 #5&6 from the previous arc, specially to put their appearance in SS4 #2&3 in between.

The reasons are stated above:
- Cable stays with the team in 4 (and is still with them in 5) whereas he is not present in the SS issues.
- Synapse takes a break between UA 4 & 5 but appears in the SS issues.

[StrayLamb]

Firstly, Uncanny Avengers Vol. 3 #5-6. The stories indicate that:
1. Synapse took a break after the death of her grandfather.
2. Cable was basically hanging constantly with the team.

After those issues Synapse is back with the team and Cable goes to fix his time-travel tech. Currently, Black Knight Vol. 4 and Squadron Supreme Vol. 4 #2-3 which feature Unity Division with Synapse and without Cable sit between UA3 #4 and #5 which doesn't really make sense. Reading through almost everything (I've only skipped everything GotG related, Red Wolf and HtD main story) I haven't really seen anything that would force such late placement. So, UA3 #5-6 should be moved before those.

(...)

I want to say that I agree with this comment.

I'm at this point in my reading and it doesn't make sense to split UA3 #5&6 from the previous arc, specially to put their appearance in SS4 #2&3 in between.

The reasons are stated above:
- Cable stays with the team in 4 (and is still with them in 5) whereas he is not present in the SS issues.
- Synapse takes a break between UA 4 & 5 but appears in the SS issues.

I agree. Synapse and Cable are missing from the Unity Squad during the interview in UX4 6/2, although they could have been absent for any reason, but there appears to be a slight break between UA3 4 & 5, so i would place UA3 5-6 after that.

While we're in this area, in EXX 1, Storm, Iceman & Cerebra meet up with Old Man Logan in Manitoba, and he's been drifting around Canada between pages 15 & 16 of OML2 4, so iwould place EXX 1 between OML2 4 (1 - 15) & OML2 4 (16 - 20).

---
NA4 3-6
UA3 1-4
OML2 2-3
OML2 4 (1 - 15)
EXX 1 (college midterms)
OML2 4 (16 - 20)
EXX 2-5
UX4 6/2
UA3 5-6
MSM4 1-FB (after ANADA 1)
SQS4 2-5 ("months" after SQS4 1)
BK4 1-5
EXX 6-7
ASM4 1/2 (before SM2099v3 1)
ANHAWK2 2 (spans a month, roughly)
DD/P 1-4
GOI 3/2
SCRW2 3-4
USQG2 2-5
ANADA 4-6
ANHAWK2 3-6
UA3 5-6
SM2099v3 1 (1-16) (before ASM4 1/3-1/6)
---

[Beifica]

Firstly, Uncanny Avengers Vol. 3 #5-6. The stories indicate that:
1. Synapse took a break after the death of her grandfather.
2. Cable was basically hanging constantly with the team.

After those issues Synapse is back with the team and Cable goes to fix his time-travel tech. Currently, Black Knight Vol. 4 and Squadron Supreme Vol. 4 #2-3 which feature Unity Division with Synapse and without Cable sit between UA3 #4 and #5 which doesn't really make sense. Reading through almost everything (I've only skipped everything GotG related, Red Wolf and HtD main story) I haven't really seen anything that would force such late placement. So, UA3 #5-6 should be moved before those.

(...)

I want to say that I agree with this comment.

I'm at this point in my reading and it doesn't make sense to split UA3 #5&6 from the previous arc, specially to put their appearance in SS4 #2&3 in between.

The reasons are stated above:
- Cable stays with the team in 4 (and is still with them in 5) whereas he is not present in the SS issues.
- Synapse takes a break between UA 4 & 5 but appears in the SS issues.

I agree. Synapse and Cable are missing from the Unity Squad during the interview in UX4 6/2, although they could have been absent for any reason, but there appears to be a slight break between UA3 4 & 5, so i would place UA3 5-6 after that.

While we're in this area, in EXX 1, Storm, Iceman & Cerebra meet up with Old Man Logan in Manitoba, and he's been drifting around Canada between pages 15 & 16 of OML2 4, so iwould place EXX 1 between OML2 4 (1 - 15) & OML2 4 (16 - 20).

---
NA4 3-6
UA3 1-4
OML2 2-3
OML2 4 (1 - 15)
EXX 1 (college midterms)
OML2 4 (16 - 20)
EXX 2-5
UX4 6/2
UA3 5-6
MSM4 1-FB (after ANADA 1)
SQS4 2-5 ("months" after SQS4 1)
BK4 1-5
EXX 6-7
ASM4 1/2 (before SM2099v3 1)
ANHAWK2 2 (spans a month, roughly)
DD/P 1-4
GOI 3/2
SCRW2 3-4
USQG2 2-5
ANADA 4-6
ANHAWK2 3-6
UA3 5-6
SM2099v3 1 (1-16) (before ASM4 1/3-1/6)
---

Additionally, the last 3 pages of OML2 4 should be concurrent with the last 4 pages of EXX 1, as both depict the same event, just from different POVs