Wrecker Continuity Issues

[Nausiated]

There are some glaring errors in the Wreckers chronology in this section here:

T 430
T 431
FF 355
CA 394/2
AF 118
AF 119

The issues at hand are FF 355 and CA 394/2 and how they fit with T 430-431 and AF 118-119.

In Thor #430-431, the Wrecking Crew is depowered and the Wrecker is captured by Loki and tortured before having his powers stolen as well and being banished to another dimension. In Alpha Flight #118-119, Thunderball uses a Trans-Dimensional Power Siphon to retrieve the Wrecker and restore the Wrecking Crew to their former glory.

FF 355 was a fill-in issue and takes in the past compared to the on going FF storyline of the time. A footnote in that issue even states that it takes place before T 418, but that conflicts with the Thing's chronology because pre T 418 was a period where Ben Grimm was in human form. I would argue that this story actually takes place shortly after the Wrecker's appearance in PPSSM #125-126, since both that story and FF 355 were written by Danny Fingeroth. The Spider-Man story ends with the Wrecker being pissed at Thunderball for betrayal and FF 355 shows the Wrecker going for revenge.

CA 394/2, however, does not feature the Wrecker at all. I think whoever listed that as an appearance of the Wrecker made a misidentification. They story in question is a back-up tale regarding members of the Serpent Society and takes place primarily at the Bar With No Name. Many of the villains who appear in this story are just in the background. The only member of the Wrecking Crew present is on page 5, panel 1. It's Thunderball and he is talking to some guy who...


.. is wearing a knit cap. This is obviously not the Wrecker. As such, the listing of CA 394/2 should be purged from his appearance list.

Based on these points, I believe the Wrecker's appearance listing should be adjusted as follows:

PPSSM 125 (14 - 23)
PPSSM 126
FF 355
GLA2 3-FB
DAMCON2 1
A@ 19/3-FB
IM 251
A:DV
T 418
A@ 19/5
T 426
T 427/2
T 428
T 429
T 430
T 431
AF 118

[michel]

PPSSM 126 is currently in between pages of FF 305, put 355 after it seems difficult.
We don't have put FF 355 out of sequence, and it's currently before T 436. What makes you think it's in the past, just the footnote about T 418?

[Nausiated]

PPSSM 126 is currently in between pages of FF 305, put 355 after it seems difficult.
We don't have put FF 355 out of sequence, and it's currently before T 436. What makes you think it's in the past, just the footnote about T 418?

As I said above, it isn't just the footnote, it's also the fact that Ben Grimm is in his Thing form. If you were to place this story immediately around the time of T 418 it wouldn't work because around this time (the 1990 publication period) Ben Grimm was de-powered (between FF 327 to 350). However, when you read Ben's thought balloons he talks like he is in his Thing form, not wearing the Thing exo-skeleton that he would wear on occasion during this period. Most stories during Ben's de-powered period at this time would make a point of mentioning that he is wearing the exo-skeleton if he appeared as the Thing. That's not done here.

Not sure where you are getting PPSSM 126 taking place between the pages of FF 305. I did a search of the database and I don't find that connection anywhere. Could you please point me to where that is listed? Particularly which pages PPSSM 126 intersects with FF 305?

That said, it can still fit in here if you assume that PPSSM 126 takes place between page 17 panels 5 and 6. The bulk of FF 305 is about the Thing forming a new team since Reed and Sue are going on a hiatus to focus on raising Franklin. Up until page 17, panel 4, the narrative of the story is in a chronological order and the events all take place within the same day. However, panel 5 on page 17 jumps to the Four Freedoms Plaza with the caption "Time Passes.." It's entirely possible that the Thing could have went down to Yancy Street as he did in FF 355 and encountered the Wrecker etc and been back for the tail end of FF 305. In fact, Ben isn't seen between page 15 panel 2 (after having a spat with the Torch over "Alicia Masters"/Lyja) and page 20, page 4, where he shows up just as Crystal agrees to rejoin the FF. There is no mention of where Ben had gone all this time.

So I don't see how it could be difficult to fit the events of that story in this window. But again, I'm not really seeing where PPSSM 126 happens concurrently with FF 305, so I'm not sure how you're interpreting it.

[michel]

FF 305 has been split between pages 17 and 18 to fit FFV.X 1-4:

MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS
...
FF 304
FF 305 (1 - 17)
FFV.X 1
FFV.X 2
FFV.X 3
FFV.X 4
M/FAN 46
FF 305 (18 - 22)
FF@ 20
...

Spider-Man has PPSSM 126 before WOSM 29, and Wolverine has WOSM 29 before FFV.X 1, so PPSSM 126 is before FF 305 (18 - 22).

SPIDER-MAN/PETER BENJAMIN PARKER
...
PPSSM 125 (14 - 23)
PPSSM 126
WOSM 28
WTSM 17
WTSM 18
SMV.W
ASM 289 (3 - 9)
WOSM 29 (1)
ASM 289 (10)
WOSM 29 (2 - 5)
ASM 289 (11 - 14)
WOSM 29 (6 - 11:4)
ASM 289 (18 - 38)
WOSM 29 (14 - 23)
ASM 289 (39 - 40)
WOSM 30
...

WOLVERINE/"LOGAN"/JAMES HOWLETT
...
SMV.W
WOSM 29
FFV.X 1
FFV.X 2
FFV.X 3
FFV.X 4
XV.A 1
...

[Nausiated]

This actually supports the original point I was making: As far as the Wrecker's appearance in FF 355, that story fits better closer to PPSSM 126 than where it is currently listed. If anything what you're pointing out actually confirms my suspicion that it would fit best between pages 17 and 18 of FF 305.

The only affected characters here are the Thing, Wrecker, and Thunderball. This story fits because Ben Grimm is in his Thing form, which is the only real sticking point continuity wise. It makes sense that the Wrecker would be going after Thunderball in FF 355 because Thunderball betrayed him in PPSSM 126 and they are friendly-ish again when the Wreckers are reunited in T 418. Both the PPSSM and FF stories were written by the same writer and the only reason why this story was published so late was because FF 355 is a fill in story as the creative team was changing (from Walt Simonson to Tom DeFalco/Paul Ryan) It reads like an old inventory story that had been unused.

Placing the Wrecker's appearance in that space between FF 305 doesn't disrupt anyone else. It fits the Things chronology as well. It doesn't affect anyone else. Whereas leaving the appearance where it current is listed doesn't make sense in terms of the Wrecker's chronology.

Not sure why you're pointing to Spider-Man, Mister Fantastic, and Wolverine for as the placement of FF 305 doesn't disrupt any of their chronologies in any way.

[michel]

Not sure why you're pointing to Spider-Man, Mister Fantastic, and Wolverine for as the placement of FF 305 doesn't disrupt any of their chronologies in any way.

It was to show why PPSSM 126 was before FF 305 (18 - 22).
But anyway, I think you're making sense and I'm inclined to agree with you. What do the other directors think?

[StrayLamb]

Nausiated makes some good points and i agree with his conclusions. I'm not seeing why Michel places PPSSM 126 between pages of FF 305. I don't see any reason that it can't take place earlier than that. Wasp tells us that WCA2 17-24 takes place between A 277 & A 278, and for Thing, they take place between FF 303 & 304. Thor has T 375-382 between A 277 & XV.A 1-4, which follows on directly from FFV.X 1-4.

It seems to me that PPSSM 126 & FF 355 works best in the gap between WCA2 23 & FF 304. That's not upsetting the chronologies of Mr Fantastic, Spider-Man or Wolverine.

Suggested updates..

THING II/MAJ. BENJAMIN J. GRIMM
---
FF 303
WCA2 24-FB
WCA2 22
WCA2 23
FF 355 * MOVE TO HERE
FF 304
FF 305 (1 - 17)
FFV.X 1
FFV.X 2
FFV.X 3
FFV.X 4
M/FAN 46
FF 305 (18 - 22)
FF@ 20
---
IG 6-BTS
FF 355 * MOVE FROM HERE
FF 356
---

THUNDERBALL/DR. ELIOT FRANKLIN
---
A 277
PPSSM 126
FF 355 * MOVE TO HERE
DAMCON 1-FB
DAMCON 1
DAMCON2 1
FF 335
A:DV
T 418
T 426
T 427/2
T 428
T 429
T 430
DAMCON3 1
FF 355 * MOVE FROM HERE
CA 395/2
ASM 353
---

WRECKER III/DIRK GARTHWAITE
---
PPSSM 125 (14 - 23)
PPSSM 126
FF 355 * MOVE TO HERE
GLA2 3-FB
DAMCON2 1
A@ 19/3-FB
IM 251
A:DV
T 418
A@ 19/5
T 426
T 427/2
T 428
T 429
T 430
T 431
FF 355 * MOVE FROM HERE
CA 394/2
AF 118
---

[michel]

I've shown PPSSM 126 is before FF 305 (18 - 22). In my file, I have it after FF 305 (1 - 17), but you're right, FF 304-305(1 - 17) can be moved after PPSSM 126 without upsetting anybody's listing.
And FF 355 fits better before FF 304, in which Ben becomes the leader of the team and Reed and Sue leave, because when Ben thinks the team has some problems, he thinks of Reed, Sue, Johnny and him and there's no mention of him beeing leader.