Rampaging Hulk Vol 2 1-6

[Leoparis]

This series spanning over weeks and more than a thousand miles is currently placed while Banner rented an apartment in NYC between two issues separated by only one day 208, Feb 77, & 209, Mar 77. The owner, who appears in every issue, makes no mention of Banner's disappearance during his stay in NYC, IH2 208-215.

In issue 6, Jan 99, it says "six long years ago." On an approximate rate of four years to one, this puts the story circa 1975.

In issue 1 Banner is in Chicago and is transported to the Southwest where he stays until 6.

Other characters appearing are Ross, Talbot, Betty, the FF and the Puma. It is rather hard to have Ross, Talbot and this FF lineup.

In 5 Sue Storm congratulates Betty for her marriage (which was way back in H 158, Dec 72). Honeymoon was from 159 to 163, with Talbot off duty. In 163 General Ross is captured by Russians until 166.Talbot is thought dead from 166, Aug 73, to 176, Jun 1974. His imposter replaces him in 179, Sep 74. This is the earliest time we have both Ross and Talbot on duty after the wedding. In 179 Hulk is in the Appalachia after a return from Counter-Earth.

Hulk is in Chicago in H 183, Jan 75. In his next MCP appearance, DEF 15, he has an adventure in Carslbad, New Mexico.

H 179 & 180-183 are currently located between FF 144 & 145 in the 1973-75 chronology. This won't do. Sue Richards is separated from Reed, from FF 135 (June 1973) to 149 (Aug 1974). Per publication date, it should be possible for H 179-183 (183 at least) to take place after Sue reconnects with Reed in FF 149.

Note Medusa replaces Sue in the FF & Johnny Storm has his red costume from FF 133 (April 1973) to 159 (June 1975) so it is necessary to imagine Sue replacing Medusa just this once. Sue is in costume in A 127 and FF 150 for Crystal's wedding. Medusa may be absent from the FF for preparations. We'll suppose Johnny returned to the blue costume because his sister takes Medusa's spot, just like he does later in FF 159.

After FF 149 is then the earliest time Sue Richards as a member of the FF has the opportunity to congratulate Betty on her marriage. It is belated but probably inspired by her recent reunion with Reed or by Crystal's incoming wedding.

There is a note referring to an encephalo-band device we saw in Hulk 200: Reed, "The Gamma Base scientists developed something along the same lines not long ago." Footnote: As seen in the classic Incredible Hulk #200."

The continued references to Gamma Base (rather than Hulkbuster Base) have to be dismissed. Maybe both names were in use. Ross still mentions Hulkbusting in RAMH2 1.

All it requires is that the device was already developed by the time of Hulk 183 and Richards knowing about it (readers only saw it in 200 but it existed earlier) to circumvent placing those issues after IH 200.

The Glenn Talbot between 183 & 184 is a Russian spy. In RAMH2 1 we have Talbot's thought about his marriage. How can the Russian spy think Talbot's thoughts? We have a possible explanation in H 188 where Kronski's mind lives on in Talbot's real body. If a mind transfer put Kronski's mind in Talbot, then Talbot's mind could exist in Kronski's body.
I also propose to change Gregori Kronski to Major (not yet colonel) Glenn Talbot imposter as he mostly appears as such.

I went through gymnastics to keep this series canon. Other series have been dismissed for far less. Case in point:

Startling Stories: Banner 1-4 naturally takes place between 193 and 194. Shortly after regaining his gamma strength Samson is inordinately aggressive in 193 and Startling Stories. The suicide attempt in #1 is referenced in Hulk: Last Call. In #4 we also see the Hulk dying and reviving as made canon in Immortal Hulk.

It has been claimed that the Startling Stories line was out of continuity. So I've looked at actual Marvel statements regarding that line and all I could find was that "top creators could tell great stories that weren't constrained by continuity." That really is not the same as "out of continuity" but simply that editors will accept the story whether or not it fits in current continuity. There is no rule that it cannot be in continuity. Case in point: Startling Stories: The Thing was given a chronology by the MCP:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12299
https://chronologyproject.com/searchthe ... TRTLS%3ATG

None of the other characters in the Rampaging Hulk series are affected.

BANNER, BETTY ROSS TALBOT
IH2 180
RAMH2 1 move here
RAMH2 3 move here
RAMH2 4 move here
RAMH2 5 move here
DEF 184
...
IH2 207
RAMH2 1 move from here
RAMH2 3 move from here
RAMH2 4 move from here
RAMH2 5 move from here
IH2 209

DOC SAMSON
IH2 193
STRTLS:B 1 add
STRTLS:B 2 add
STRTLS:B 3 add
STRTLS:B 4 add
IH2 194

HULK/DR. ROBERT BRUCE BANNER
IH2 183 (in Chicago)
RAMH2 1 move here (in Chicago)
RAMH2 1/2 move here
RAMH2 2 move here (in New Mexico)
RAMH2 3 move here
RAMH2 4 move here
RAMH2 5 move here
RAMH2 6 move here (in New Mexico)
DEF 15 (in New Mexico)
...
IH2 193
STRTLS:B 1 (Southwest)
STRTLS:B 2
STRTLS:B 3
STRTLS:B 4 (Southwest)
T 233 (in San Francisco)
DEF 21 (in Connecticut after "leaping across a continent")
GSDEF 3
GSDEF 4
DEF 22
...
IH2 209
RAMH2 1 move from here
RAMH2 1/2 move from here
RAMH2 2 move from here
RAMH2 3 move from here
RAMH2 4 move from here
RAMH2 5 move from here
RAMH2 6 move from here
IH2 209
IH@ 6

HUMAN TORCH II/JONATHAN LOWELL SPENCER STORM
M/TU 26
RAMH2 4 move here
RAMH2 5 move here
A 127
...
M/TE 13
RAMH2 4 move from here
RAMH2 5 move from here
M/TIO 27

INVISIBLE GIRL/SUE STORM RICHARDS
FF 149
RAMH2 4 move here
RAMH2 5 move here
A 127
...
M/TE 13
RAMH2 4 move from here
RAMH2 5 move from here
M/TIO 27

MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS
M/TIO 4
RAMH2 4 move here
RAMH2 5 move here
A 127
...
M/TE 13
RAMH2 4 move from here
RAMH2 5 move from here
M/TIO 27

ROSS, GEN. THADDEUS E. "THUNDERBOLT"
IH2 180
RAMH2 1 move here
RAMH2 2 move here
RAMH2 3 move here
RAMH2 4 move here
RAMH2 5 move here
RAMH2 6 move here
IH2 184
...
IH2 193
STRTLS:B 3 add
STRTLS:B 4 add
IH2 184
...
IH2 208
RAMH2 1 move from here
RAMH2 2 move from here
RAMH2 3 move from here
RAMH2 4 move from here
RAMH2 5 move from here
RAMH2 6 move from here
IH2 209

TALBOT, COL. GLENN
IH2 208
RAMH2 1 move from here
RAMH2 2 move from here
RAMH2 3 move from here
RAMH2 4 move from here
RAMH2 5 move from here
RAMH2 6 move from here
IH2 209

TALBOT, MAJ. GLENN IMPOSTER/GREGORI KRONSKI (change)
IH2 179
RAMH2 1 move here
RAMH2 2 move here
RAMH2 3 move here
RAMH2 4 move here
RAMH2 5 move here
RAMH2 6 move here
IH2 184

THING II/MAJ. BENJAMIN J. GRIMM
M/TIO 5 (18:6)
RAMH2 4 move here
RAMH2 5 move here
A 127
...
M/TE 13
RAMH2 4 move from here
RAMH2 5 move from here
M/TIO 26

[StrayLamb]

This series spanning over weeks and more than a thousand miles is currently placed while Banner rented an apartment in NYC between two issues separated by only one day 208, Feb 77, & 209, Mar 77. The owner, who appears in every issue, makes no mention of Banner's disappearance during his stay in NYC, IH2 208-215.

I agree this needs to be moved from its current position.

In issue 6, Jan 99, it says "six long years ago." On an approximate rate of four years to one, this puts the story circa 1975.

This seems rather nebulous, and is not the best criteria for placing fill-in stories.

In issue 1 Banner is in Chicago and is transported to the Southwest where he stays until 6.

Other characters appearing are Ross, Talbot, Betty, the FF and the Puma. It is rather hard to have Ross, Talbot and this FF lineup.

In 5 Sue Storm congratulates Betty for her marriage (which was way back in H 158, Dec 72). Honeymoon was from 159 to 163, with Talbot off duty. In 163 General Ross is captured by Russians until 166.Talbot is thought dead from 166, Aug 73, to 176, Jun 1974. His imposter replaces him in 179, Sep 74. This is the earliest time we have both Ross and Talbot on duty after the wedding. In 179 Hulk is in the Appalachia after a return from Counter-Earth.

Hulk is in Chicago in H 183, Jan 75. In his next MCP appearance, DEF 15, he has an adventure in Carslbad, New Mexico.

Sue congratulating Betty on her marriage is ridiculous based on the current position we have for this series, but it seems to be the only thing holding it back from being placed in this current vicinity. If we draw a big X thru that one unfortunate panel, we solve a lot of problems.

H 179 & 180-183 are currently located between FF 144 & 145 in the 1973-75 chronology. This won't do. Sue Richards is separated from Reed, from FF 135 (June 1973) to 149 (Aug 1974). Per publication date, it should be possible for H 179-183 (183 at least) to take place after Sue reconnects with Reed in FF 149.

A couple of things. Firstly, the chronologies we’ve constructed for the early years are not official, and are not set in stone. They are designed to be a guide for readers, and an aid to placing stories. There’s probably no reason these issues couldn’t be rearranged in relation to each other as they have no mutual character appearances. However, the only reason i can see that the current positions “won’t do” for you is because you want to put RAMH2 1-6 in here, and that would require some slight rearrangement of these issues. As it stands, i don’t see anything preventing the current arrangement.

Note Medusa replaces Sue in the FF & Johnny Storm has his red costume from FF 133 (April 1973) to 159 (June 1975) so it is necessary to imagine Sue replacing Medusa just this once. Sue is in costume in A 127 and FF 150 for Crystal's wedding. Medusa may be absent from the FF for preparations. We'll suppose Johnny returned to the blue costume because his sister takes Medusa's spot, just like he does later in FF 159.

After FF 149 is then the earliest time Sue Richards as a member of the FF has the opportunity to congratulate Betty on her marriage. It is belated but probably inspired by her recent reunion with Reed or by Crystal's incoming wedding.

There is a note referring to an encephalo-band device we saw in Hulk 200: Reed, "The Gamma Base scientists developed something along the same lines not long ago." Footnote: As seen in the classic Incredible Hulk #200."

The continued references to Gamma Base (rather than Hulkbuster Base) have to be dismissed. Maybe both names were in use. Ross still mentions Hulkbusting in RAMH2 1.

All it requires is that the device was already developed by the time of Hulk 183 and Richards knowing about it (readers only saw it in 200 but it existed earlier) to circumvent placing those issues after IH 200.

The Glenn Talbot between 183 & 184 is a Russian spy. In RAMH2 1 we have Talbot's thought about his marriage. How can the Russian spy think Talbot's thoughts? We have a possible explanation in H 188 where Kronski's mind lives on in Talbot's real body. If a mind transfer put Kronski's mind in Talbot, then Talbot's mind could exist in Kronski's body.
I also propose to change Gregori Kronski to Major (not yet colonel) Glenn Talbot imposter as he mostly appears as such.

It seems that your chosen position for RAMH2 1-6 is based primarily on Hulk’s geographical positions in IH2 183 & DEF 15. Using Hulk’s geographical locations is neither more nor less reliable than my use elsewhere of seasonal dates, which you eschew. If it works, all well and good, but it can’t be the sole critieria.

In order to make this work, we have to “imagine Sue replacing Medusa just this once,” “Medusa may be absent from the FF for preparations,” “suppose Johnny returned to the blue costume because his sister takes Medusa's spot,” “that the [encephelo-band] device was already developed by the time of Hulk 183 and Richards knowing about it,” that “the continued references to Gamma Base (rather than Hulkbuster Base) have to be dismissed,” and that Major Talbot is actually Gregori Kronski, but with Talbot’s thoughts. Although you explain each of these, that’s a lot of things we have to imagine in order to accept this placement.

I would suggest that we ignore the single panel in which Sue remarks on Betty’s wedding, putting it down to being a simple mistake on the part of the writer, and locate RAMH2 1-6 after IH2 208 (1 - 9:3), along with the several other listings that take place while the rubbish bins are being emptied.

IH 207 (Defenders & Red Guardian) > 208 (1 - 9:3) (IH2 207 was yesterday; last thing Banner remembers clearly is Jarella dying in Sante Fe) > RAMH2 1-6 > M/SSPEC 1 (Red Guardian still in NYC, Valkyrie in armour, short meeting) > M/TE 13 (Valkyrie in classic costume) > IH@ 6 (Hulk in sanctum sanctorum) > DEF 57-FB (Valkyrie in classic costume) > Def 42 (Defenders exhausted from battle in H 207 DEF 57-FB) > DEF 43-51 (1 -5) (Valkyrie in classic costume, Red Guardian leaves Defenders and USA, Strange leaves Defenders, Hulk and Valkyrie have to relocate, Val enrolls at university), new plotlines start in Hulk 208 (9:4 - 17) (Banner rents a place rather than staying at the sanctum sanctorum, Absorbing Man recruited to fight the Hulk) > 209 (Banner gets a job, vs Absorbing Man, spied upon in alleyway by Dr Druid) > 210

I went through gymnastics to keep this series canon. Other series have been dismissed for far less. Case in point:

Startling Stories: Banner 1-4 naturally takes place between 193 and 194. Shortly after regaining his gamma strength Samson is inordinately aggressive in 193 and Startling Stories. The suicide attempt in #1 is referenced in Hulk: Last Call. In #4 we also see the Hulk dying and reviving as made canon in Immortal Hulk.

It has been claimed that the Startling Stories line was out of continuity. So I've looked at actual Marvel statements regarding that line and all I could find was that "top creators could tell great stories that weren't constrained by continuity." That really is not the same as "out of continuity" but simply that editors will accept the story whether or not it fits in current continuity. There is no rule that it cannot be in continuity. Case in point: Startling Stories: The Thing was given a chronology by the MCP:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12299
https://chronologyproject.com/searchthe ... TRTLS%3ATG

These are valid points, and i realize you are using this to illustrate a point, but it seems like this should be brought up for discussion in a separate topic.

[Leoparis]

Five spots have been considered: middle of 209 (does not work for Banner, Glenn & Betty), between 183 & 184, middle of 208, between 204 & 205, break in 206. This review is done to take note of all chronological considerations.

Issue #1
Banner describes himself as a fugitive. He's in Chicago where he took a job behind a phony name to a access the gamma accelerator of Brand Corporation. He mentions Betty as the only girl he ever loved and her marriage to Talbot. Gamma Base: Scene with Betty and Glenn. Talbot thinking "You'll never truly love me the way you once loved him." Banner captured and brought to Gamma Base in New Mexico. Ross mentions Richards is on a mission with the FF.
2nd story: Montana

Issue #2 "New Mexican desert, nearly six years ago." Banner in Desert State University. His old professor says, "When it was reported all those months back that you were the Hulk..." Banner mentions the Leader, Abomination and Harpy (from IH 167).

Issue #3
Banner captured and sent to Gamma Base. Betty visits him then asks Glenn for a vacation. Ross send Talbot and the Hulkbusters to get Ravage. Ross frees Banner. Hulk saves Ross from collapsing building in Desert State U. Ravage is cryogenised. Talbot thinks vacation is busted.

Issue #4
Hulk in Colorado Rockies. Snow falling. Avalanche. Betty and Ross have a talk. Talbot in Pentagon. Major Reeves is concerned about the effectiveness of Gamma Base and is to provide a report. Talbot back to base. Richards "We've been particularly busy of late."

Issue #5
"New Mexico, nearly six years ago." Thing, "I've been itching for a rematch for a while now." Sue, "Congratulations on your marriage to Major Talbot, Betty." Betty, "It hasn't been easy what with my husband so enmeshed in his work and constantly putting himself in danger."
"Crystal Falls, Colorado." (no snow) Banner reading newspaper "Father & Son Saved From Avalanche" (referring to last issue)
Banner flirting with waitress and thinks about Betty. Mr. Fantastic refers to the encephalo-band developed "not long ago" "at Gamma Base as seen in H 200" per editorial note. Mr. Fantastic displays intensive use of his powers but suffers when Hulk twists him. Major Reeves inspects Gamma Base. Thing, "I kinda felt somethin' for him, empathy. I am what he is, a monster."

Issue #6
New Mexico. "Six long years ago" Major Reeves reveals the damning preliminary findings of his inspection. Joseph Threetrees, Puma's uncle, looks like the Indian impersonated by Scourge in Marvel Fanfare 29. "Hulk has smashed Thor a few times" Hulk says Jarella is dead. Vision of JIm Wilson in dreadlocks.


The mention from the Thing that he is a monster means he's not wearing his exo-suit (or he forgot about it, a case of rampant contagious amnesia?)

The mention of the death of Jarella and the state of the Talbot couple really reduces the possibilities. It has to be as soon as possible after H 205. So how do we organize all those issues? Per the stages of grief I propose denial in RAMH2 1-5 (neither Banner nor Hulk even think about Jarella's death until #6), anger (he decides to go see Dr Strange), bargaining, depression (H 208) and acceptance.

I guess we can make good use of Def 40, we see Hulk getting furious about the exploitation of death in a movie (anger) and then forgetting why he got mad (reverting to denial). His therapy session in RAMH2 6 gets him out of denial.

Since we've got to settle for temporary amnesia, we can add the Banner appearances in H:LBB. In this Ross is alone, Talbot is in Washington in RAMH2 4 and returns by the end of the issue.
H 205 > Def 40 SW > Def@ 1 OK > Def 41 NY, NV > RAMH2 1-3 > H:LBB > RAMH2 4-6 > H 206-207 > H 208 (1 - ??) > M/SSPEC 1 NY > M/TE 13 NY > M/TU 51-55 > IH@ 6 > Def 57-FB > Def 42

We're left with Banner thinking the last thing he recalls clearly is H 205. Like he had amnesia. Should we have Def 40 after the Banner appearances like so:
H 205 > RAMH2 1-3 > H:LBB > RAMH2 4-6 > Def 40 SW > H 206-207 > H 208 (1 - ??) > Def@ 1 OK > Def 41 NY, NV > M/SSPEC 1 NY > M/TE 13 NY > M/TU 51-55 NM > IH@ 6 NY > Def 57-FB > Def 42

I don't think that last one works, why would Banner only forget the events from RAMH2 and H:LBB? There's no making sense of that comment.

I prefer the former lineup where he forgets a traumatic incident. At this point, early breaks in 208 are perfectly acceptable.
H 205
Def 40 SW (forgets why he gets mad at movie protest) (goes in utter denial)
Def@ 1 OK
Def 41 NY, NV
RAMH2 1 IL, NM
RAMH2 1/2 MO
RAMH2 2 NM
RAMH2 3 NM
H:LBB-FB SD
H:LBB tornado area
RAMH2 4 CO
RAMH2 5 NM
RAMH2 6 NM (speaks with Jarella in therapy session) (resumes his intention)
H 206 NJ, NY
H 207 NY
H 208 (1 - ??) NY
M/SSPEC 1 NY
M/TE 13 NY
M/TU 51 NM
M/TU 53
M/TU 54
M/TU 55 NM
IH@ 6 NY
Def 57-FB
Def 42
...
DEF 51 (1 - 5)
IH2 208 (?? -

[StrayLamb]

Issue #4
Hulk in Colorado Rockies. Snow falling. Avalanche. Betty and Ross have a talk. Talbot in Pentagon. Major Reeves is concerned about the effectiveness of Gamma Base and is to provide a report. Talbot back to base. Richards "We've been particularly busy of late."

Issue #5
"New Mexico, nearly six years ago." Thing, "I've been itching for a rematch for a while now." Sue, "Congratulations on your marriage to Major Talbot, Betty." Betty, "It hasn't been easy what with my husband so enmeshed in his work and constantly putting himself in danger."
"Crystal Falls, Colorado." (no snow) Banner reading newspaper "Father & Son Saved From Avalanche" (referring to last issue)
Banner flirting with waitress and thinks about Betty. Mr. Fantastic refers to the encephalo-band developed "not long ago" "at Gamma Base as seen in H 200" per editorial note. Mr. Fantastic displays intensive use of his powers but suffers when Hulk twists him. Major Reeves inspects Gamma Base. Thing, "I kinda felt somethin' for him, empathy. I am what he is, a monster."

Issue #6
New Mexico. "Six long years ago" Major Reeves reveals the damning preliminary findings of his inspection. Joseph Threetrees, Puma's uncle, looks like the Indian impersonated by Scourge in Marvel Fanfare 29. "Hulk has smashed Thor a few times" Hulk says Jarella is dead. Vision of JIm Wilson in dreadlocks.

The mention from the Thing that he is a monster means he's not wearing his exo-suit (or he forgot about it, a case of rampant contagious amnesia?)

I'm thinking that Sue's comments to Betty should have been more along the lines of congratulating her on having Talbot back. That would work.

But there's a problem with Ben Grimm. The FF haven't yet returned from Counter-Earth in IH2 206, and until they return, Ben is in his exo-suit. So as you say, perhaps a case of rampant contagious amnesia? Maybe it’s just Ben’s general state of mind, or perhaps he still feels like a monster because he has to wear the suit? Something's gotta give somewhere, and this is probably the least important of the various breaking points. Apart from that, i believe we can make this work.

For the FF, RAMH2 4-5 would need to be placed in the gap between pages 4 & 5 of FF 171. There can be no interaction between Thing and Hulk between FF 167 & 171 (1 - 4). Page 5 begins the Counter-Earth excursion, which they still haven’t returned from by IH2 206.

[Michael]

Joseph Threetrees, Puma's uncle, looks like the Indian impersonated by Scourge in Marvel Fanfare 29.

While we're on the subject of Threetrees, we have Puma's uncle, who is a shaman, listed under Shaman II. But he's not called Joseph Threetrees in the entry and this issue isn't in his chronology. Was there a determination that Puma's uncle in this series was different from the uncle that's made other appearances? (Obviously, Puma can have more than one uncle.)

[MarvelBoy2002]

Startling Stories: Banner 1-4 naturally takes place between 193 and 194. Shortly after regaining his gamma strength Samson is inordinately aggressive in 193 and Startling Stories. The suicide attempt in #1 is referenced in Hulk: Last Call. In #4 we also see the Hulk dying and reviving as made canon in Immortal Hulk.

It has been claimed that the Startling Stories line was out of continuity. So I've looked at actual Marvel statements regarding that line and all I could find was that "top creators could tell great stories that weren't constrained by continuity." That really is not the same as "out of continuity" but simply that editors will accept the story whether or not it fits in current continuity. There is no rule that it cannot be in continuity. Case in point: Startling Stories: The Thing was given a chronology by the MCP:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12299
https://chronologyproject.com/searchthe ... TRTLS%3ATG

Startling Stories: Banner reality is identified as Earth-20017 in Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe A to Z #4.

[dimadick]

Banner flirting with waitress and thinks about Betty. Mr. Fantastic refers to the encephalo-band developed "not long ago" "at Gamma Base as seen in H 200" per editorial note.

The device mentioned was uses to place the Hulk's body under Bruce Banner's control. Glenn Talbot awakens from a catatonic state at the finale of the issue. This is several years after his wedding day.