Incredible Hulk in 1968

[whatcomesnext?]

I have a question.

Through much of the Silver Age, the Hulk was written as a continuous serial with few obvious continuity breaks to help keep it in line with the rest of the Marvel Universe, chronologically speaking. I was wondering if there was a resource that explained the where's, why's and how's of the breaks that exist in the Hulk's timeline, like there are with Avengers and X-Men in the indexes from the 80's.

For example: In SS 4, Loki floats around looking for someone to send against Thor. He observes the Thing battling Tomazooma in FF 80, and the Hulk in one panel very similar to IH2 105 pg. 11 panel 4 during his fight with the Missing Link. So FF 80, IH2 105, and SS 4 supposedly take place around the same time. Thor's guest role in SS 4 is deduced to fall before A 58 because of where FF 80 falls in continuity.

The problem with that is, just 3 pages later in IH2 105 pg. 14, Mr. Fantastic makes an appearance that is meant to occur after A 60 (and FF 81). There's a place for a possible break on page 13 between panels 5 and 6, but that would leave the Hulk('s mind in Banner's body) and the Missing Link just sort of wandering around Manhattan for up to two weeks. Not very likely.

So is there something that explains that kind of thing where the Hulk is concerned?

[Leoparis]

In June 1978, George Olshevsky published his Marvel Comics Index 7A Heroes from Tales to Astonish Book 1: The Incredible Hulk.

To my knowledge, this is the only published index on the Hulk.

Most of the breaks for other Hulk appearances are those he identified.

Historically, indexers first track one character then try to integrate this with other characters. This is visible in the later Olshevsky work such as the Fantastic Four, Amazing Spider-Man, Marvel Team-Up Index, etc., where he tried to construct a timeline based on characters going to school (Peter Parker, Johnny Storm, the X-Men) where to fit all Marvel stories.

As Tom Brevoort has mentioned once, the timeline is actually flexible, the time between past issues tends to get shorter and shorter in order to keep all of Marvel history under 15 years. Peter Parker will probably never reach 30.

There are several of us in the MCP trying to figure the Hulk's chronology, michel, intp, Nausiated, Paul Bourcier (sorry for those I forgot).

Sometimes we redo the same work, unaware it was covered before, like the relation of GR 11 with Hulk 184 which had been done by Olshevsky in 1978, was redone for the MCP and was fixed by StrayLamb earlier this year.

After a difficult start, I've collected all Hulk-related posts of the last ten years to better tackle this task.

Frank, StrayLamb, Paul and others provide general chronologies for the Marvel Universe. This is very time-consuming and nearly impossible for one person to get it right the first time. Several sets of eyes are better than one and this is the interest of such a site.

The placement of Hulk in SS 4 used to be between 102 & 103. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5532

It seems all the consequences for the new placement were not anticipated. The Thor and Mr. Fantastic chronology likely need to be reevaluated.

[whatcomesnext?]

In that case, let me make a couple of suggestions.

On pg. 3 of SS 4, Loki mentions a couple times that he is "unfettered by space and time" as he looks for a powerful pawn. When Loki finds the Surfer, we see Loki look into the Surfer's past. For my own reading enjoyment, I'm assuming that when we see the Hulk and the Thing for one panel each, Loki is also seeing the past. So the Thing's appearance in SS 4 would have a (fb) next to it. The Hulk is just smashing rocks so, you know, take your pick of anytime we see Hulk smashing rocks before IH2 103 and tack a (SS 4 - fb) on it and there you go. Then, since we're not stuck with SS 4 taking place during FF 80, we can say that it really does take place during A 60, as topically referenced in A 60 pg. 19.

T 157
T 158
T 159
SS 4 - move from here
A 58
A:EMH2 1
SS 4 - move to here
CA 113
A 106-FB-BTS
T 160

Secondly, Odin sends Hulk back to Earth between Hulk 102 and 103. I suggest that if he's careless enough to drop the Hulk in the middle of Times Square, he's also careless enough to move him forward through time. If Hulk appears in New York after A 60 (and AEMH2 8, and IM 8), then the whole of Hulk 103-108 (plus CA 110) can take place without breaks as written, and Mr. Fantastic's appearance in Hulk 105 is listed correctly. Alternately, a break could come between Hulk 103 and 104 if we assume that the Hulk is in custody much longer than it appears. In that case Hulk 103 would follow straight from Hulk 102, and 104 would happen after A 60. Come to think of it, that might be better since, if Hulk landed in NY after A 60, he would be out of the time stream when Loki saw him in SS 4. Then again, "unfettered by space and time." There are options.

EDIT: I just had a thought that makes even more sense of the above. Let's say Odin does send the Hulk through time as well as space between Hulk 102 and 103. He lands in New York during the one-day break between Avengers 59 and 60, so the events of Hulk 103 and NFAOS 8 occur simultaneously. The following day is SS 4, the same day as A 60. Loki casts a spell that will draw him to beings of great power. The first place it takes him is Bruce Banner in prison between Hulk 103 and 104, so he has to look into the past to observe the Hulk. Next is the Thing, who would either be hanging out at, or getting ready to go to, Avengers mansion for the wedding of Yellowjacket and the Wasp. So again, Loki has to look into the past to see the Thing in action. Then Hulk 104-108 takes place after A 60 (and AEMH2 8, and IM 8). It works!

[StrayLamb]

EDIT: I just had a thought that makes even more sense of the above. Let's say Odin does send the Hulk through time as well as space between Hulk 102 and 103. He lands in New York during the one-day break between Avengers 59 and 60, so the events of Hulk 103 and NFAOS 8 occur simultaneously. The following day is SS 4, the same day as A 60. Loki casts a spell that will draw him to beings of great power. The first place it takes him is Bruce Banner in prison between Hulk 103 and 104, so he has to look into the past to observe the Hulk. Next is the Thing, who would either be hanging out at, or getting ready to go to, Avengers mansion for the wedding of Yellowjacket and the Wasp. So again, Loki has to look into the past to see the Thing in action. Then Hulk 104-108 takes place after A 60 (and AEMH2 8, and IM 8). It works!

Works for me, and cleans up an otherwise messy part of the chronology.

[Leoparis]

There is no need for Odin to send the Hulk forward in time. Time in Asgard doesn't have to flow at the same rate as in Midgard. Asgard can be seen to have a relatively low mass but there is clearly gravity and the Asgardians are very dense so it probably gravitates around a black hole on a very elliptic orbit so that depending on its place in the orbit time flows faster or slower than on Earth. So Hulk arrives on Asgard at a time when the time dilation effect made it that time flowed faster on Earth.
Conversely, the Thor stories where we see long sagas on Asgard between two issues of Avengers tend to substantiate such a hypothesis.

Lower density humans could only come safely on Asgard at specific phases of the ellipsis--unless protected by a spell (an adjustable density field).

[StrayLamb]

I've had another look at this, and haven't been able to come up with a better solution that that proposed by whatcomesnext.

Assuming the Hulk and Thing's appearances to be flashbacks as Loki looks back in time, i believe i can place a good spot for Hulk during TTA 97/2..

TTA 97/2 (1 - 10:4)
SS 4-FB
TTA 97/2 (10:5 - 10:6)

SS 4 in the Thing's listing would remain the same and become a flashback. Same with Tomazooma II.

That way, SS 4 can be placed between A 59 & 60 as the editor's note in A 60 suggests..

Avengers 59 (19 - 20)
Avengers 60 (3:3)-FB
Silver Surfer 4
Avengers 60 (1 - 3)

Does that look right?

[Leoparis]

For Hulk smashing rocks before IH2 103 you have a much better spot in Tales to Astonish 100 between pages 4 & 5.
In TTA 97/2 he is smashing a wall.

TTA 100 (1 - 4)
SS 4-FB
TTA 100 (5 - 20)

[StrayLamb]

Okay. Works for me.