Dividing Marvel Comics up into "Seasons" (or "Phases")...

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Kevin W.
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Dividing Marvel Comics up into "Seasons" (or "Phases")...

Post by Kevin W. »

Hey there. To some of you, long time no see. Others here, nice to meet you. :)

I've been thinking on something a bit lately, and figured I'd toss this out to all of the "Marvel chronology" lovers out there: As you all probably know, Marvel's taken to dividing their movies up into "Phases". "Avengers: Endgame" was supposed to be the end of "Phase 3", though Kevin Feige later said that "Spider-Man: Far From Home" was the end of Phase 3 (I guess it could be the "epilogue"). At Comic-Con last month, Marvel announced their plans for "Phase 4" of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

But I got to thinking on this, and...could this "dividing Marvel films up into phases" work for the comics?

To be clear, this is NOT the same as "how many years have passed since Fantastic Four #1?". This is more along the lines of "how many phases (or "seasons" or "chapters") have their been since Fantastic Four #1, and where are the dividing lines?

A few years back, I remember reading a quote by Joe Quesada (or someone) that from "Civil War" to "Siege" was all one storyline, one "season" of Marvel comics (and I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it). From Civil War dividing the heroes, to World War Hulk and Secret Invasion breaking the heroes down further, to the Dark Reign leading to the reuniting of all the heroes and the defeat of Norman Osborn in "Siege", that's all one season. Or phase. Does that sound correct?

Another example: The conclusion of the Clone Saga in the 90's, along with Marvel's bankruptcy and the "Onslaught" story-line, and the "Heroes Reborn" debacle, I always thought that was the end of an era (or "season" or "phase") and "Heroes Return" (or maybe "Heroes Reborn") was the start of the new era.

Where are the dividing lines, the different chapters to this thing we all know and love called "Marvel Comics"?!? Thoughts?
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Re: Dividing Marvel Comics up into "Seasons" (or "Phases")...

Post by Clive_Reston »

I've thought about this a lot, for Reasons--and I should note that I divide it up very differently for particular characters, but for the fictional universe as a whole...

If we say the first phase starts with FF #1 or (my preference) Linda Carter, Student Nurse #1 (the first series to have an "MC" logo on its cover beginning with its first issue), then I think it goes up to 1968 and the birth of Franklin Richards. (The same month, we got Steranko on X-Men, the revelation of Peter Parker's parents, the second and final issue of the Spectacular Spider-Man magazine, and the first example of Dreaded Deadline Doom filler, Thor #158!)

The second phase goes to 1980: the death of Phoenix, Frank Miller's artistic breakout, Thor #300 expanding the universe's cosmology, Stan Lee's final major co-creation (She-Hulk).

Phase III goes to 1990: the arrival of Cable and ascendance of McFarlane/Lee/Liefeld etc., the end of Acts of Vengeance, Elektra Lives Again, etc.--the wrapping-up of the '80s' thematic stuff. Lots of Satanic and quasi-Satanic figures are important during this phase, interestingly.

The fourth phase goes up to 2003 and "Avengers Disassembled" (and the iteration of Ragnarok that went along with that). Onslaught/Heroes Reborn seems like less "the dividing point" than "the weird thing that happens in the middle of that phase"--the twin of "Age of Apocalypse."

Then New Avengers starts the fifth phase, which goes up to the extremely final Secret Wars 2015. And now we're in the sixth.
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Re: Dividing Marvel Comics up into "Seasons" (or "Phases")...

Post by StrayLamb »

I would suggest that Phase Two would begin in 1970 with the loosening of the Comics Code Authority to allow horror-themed comics, beginning with Conan the Barbarian.
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Re: Dividing Marvel Comics up into "Seasons" (or "Phases")...

Post by Col_Fury »

Well, if we HAVE to skip the Timely and Atlas eras… :wink:

Stan Lee was Editor in Chief from 1961-1972. The classic straight-Marvel years.

Then there was the ramshackle years of 1972-1978 where Roy Thomas, Len Wein, Marv Wolfman, Gerry Conway and Archie Goodwin all had a turn at being EiC. This had the loosening of the Comics Code and Marvel starting to do licensed material (like Conan, War of the Worlds, etc. thanks to Thomas).

Jim Shooter was EiC from 1978-1987. Expanded licensing (Star Wars, Transformers, the Star line, etc.), and the beginning of line-wide crossovers (SECRET WARS!).

Tom DeFalco was EiC for 1987-1994. More or less a continuation of Shooter’s run, but also boasted the best sustained circulation for ongoing books. Also, continued line-wide crossovers.

The boisterous "group editor" phase of 1994-1995 had Mark Gruenwald (Avengers), Bob Harras (X-books), Bob Budiansky (Spider-books), Bobbie Chase (the rest) and Carl Potts (misc.) each taking a piece of the universe. Also, the speculator phase.

After that Bob Harras was EiC from 1995-2000. Nothing to do with editorial, but this was when the bankruptcy happened.

Joe Quesada was EiC for 2000-2011, then Axel Alonso for 2011-2017, which really felt like a Quesada continuation.

And now C.B. Cebulski is EiC starting in 2017. This feels like more of a departure/different focus from Alonso’s end than Alonso from Quesada’s end.

Having said all of that, there’s some drift between each EiC in story/feel direction, because a thing as large as the Marvel Universe can’t turn on a dime; it’s like a semi-truck vs. a motorcycle.

I’d say roughly every eleven years would be a "season." There’s some drift between the ramshackle years and Shooter before he fully took over, then DeFalco extended the Shooter run. There was a focus shift after DeFalco, then the bankruptcy interrupted things. Quesada was a fresh start, more or less, which took a while to formulate into the Civil War era. That drifted into Alonso (which this period would be roughly eleven years). And now we’re seeing a refocus under Cebluski.

So… five seasons? Seven if you include Timely and Atlas?
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Re: Dividing Marvel Comics up into "Seasons" (or "Phases")...

Post by Kevin W. »

Hmm, you guys are much more broad in the span of years for the "seasons".

Some random thoughts:

What Col. Fury describes sounds more like "Eras" (which, admittedly, is one of the words I tossed out in the opening post above). Like "The Jim Shooter Era" and the "Joe Quesada Era". Though I agree that Tom DeFalco was an extension of the Shooter era (and Alonso for Quesada).

I tended to look for story driven reasons for the start and end of a season, comparable to how some TV shows do it, (like, say, "Agents of Shield") wherein every season has a unique plot or setting or villain. A good start and stop point.

Clive Reston makes a good story driven case for 1968 being the end of "Phase 1" (especially with the birth of Franklin Richards), though I wonder if "Phase 1" should end with Jack Kirby's final issue of "Fantastic Four" (#102) in 1970, or with Stan Lee's final issue of Amazing Spider-Man (#100) in 1971. Does it feel a bit late to end the 1st "Phase" (or "Season") with "The Death of Gwen Stacy" in 1973? Maybe from 1968 to 1973 is the 2nd phase, ending with "The Death of Gwen Stacy" (or maybe the transition to the next era is "Giant Size X-men #1" in 1975? Meaning from 1968 to 1975 is a season...).

Then the next "ending" to a Phase probably comes in 1981 with the end of the Claremont/Bryne era of Uncanny X-Men ("Days of Future Past") though I could see the end of Frank Miller's run on Daredevil (at the end of 1982) as being the epilogue for that era. "Contest of Champions" (1982) was the start of the "Big Events" comics, and that came out a few months after "Days of Future Past", but "Secret Wars" (in 1984) was bigger and more of a true start to the "Event" comics (aka "Mega Crossovers") - which make for nice end/beginning points for the different "chapters" (or "phases"), especially later in the 90's/2000's. So I'd put "Contest of Champions" in with Miller's final Daredevil as the end of the phase (in other words, it ends in 1982).

Not quite sure where the next phase ends. Spider-man's marriage in 1987 feels like a nice stopping point but that's far too soon. Possibly around 1988 with "Fall of the Mutants" and Amazing Spider-Man #300 (Venom, and the start of the Todd McFarlance/"major artist" phenomenon). But I could also see the era going all the way and ending with "Acts of Vengeance"/X-Tinction Agenda" in early 1990.

Todd McFarlane's "Spider-Man" premiered in the summer of 1990, and that's possibly the start of the next era (or if not that "Spider-Man", than a few months later with Jim Lee's "X-Men" in 1991. Those two books truly kicked off the 90's "superstar artist" era, and also the 90's Marvel company wide proliferation. Also, "Infinity Gauntlet" came out in 1991. So yeah, 1990/1991 is the start of the next era...

....which comes to a halt with the end of the Clone Saga and Onslaught (and the Marvel bankruptcy) in 1996. "Heroes Reborn" (or maybe "Heroes Return" in late 1997) is the start of the next era.

"Avengers Disassembled" in 2004 is probably the end of this era. Or the start of the next (since it's where Bendis' writing began). I'm undecided. Also, the end of Grant Morrison's run on X-men in 2004 is a good stopping point for the era.

The next era truly kicks off with "House of M" in 2005 and runs to the end of "Siege" in 2010.

And then in 2010 with "The Heroic Age" until the end of "Secret Wars" in 2015, that's the next season (or "phase"). Unless you think "Civil War II" and "Secret Empire" need thrown in with this phase.

So in a nutshell, this is how I would break up the "seasons" of Marvel Comics:
Phase 1: 1961-1968
Phase 2: 1968-1975
Phase 3: 1975-1982
Phase 4: 1983-1990
Phase 5: 1990-1996
Phase 6: 1997-2004
Phase 7: 2005-2010
Phase 8: 2010-2015
Phase 9: 2015 to....

Thoughts?
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Re: Dividing Marvel Comics up into "Seasons" (or "Phases")...

Post by dimadick »

Kevin W. wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:45 pm Another example: The conclusion of the Clone Saga in the 90's, along with Marvel's bankruptcy and the "Onslaught" story-line, and the "Heroes Reborn" debacle, I always thought that was the end of an era (or "season" or "phase") and "Heroes Return" (or maybe "Heroes Reborn") was the start of the new era.
*1)The Clone Saga lasted from October, 1994 to December, 1996. Ben Reilly died in "Spider-Man" vol. 1 #75 (December, 1996). The Saga concluded with bringing back Norman Osborn, and revealing that he was secretly manipulating everyone for several years.

*2) Marvel Entertainment (and its subsidiaries) filed for bankruptcy in December, 1996, and did not fully recover until 1998. But the background to the bankruptcy can be traced back to the late 1980s.

From 1968 to 1986, Marvel was a subsidiary of Cadence Industries. Cadence had bought out Marvel's original publisher (Martin Goodman) and had taken over Marvel's previous parent company (Magazine Management Company). In 1986, Cadence was liquidated, with its assets sold to various companies.

Marvel Entertainment was sold to New World Pictures, a film production company company which had been established by Roger Corman. New World remained Marvel's parent company from 1986 to 1989.

In 1989, New World and Marvel were both sold (with two different deals) to the Andrews Group, Ronald Perelman's holding company. Under Perelman's management, Marvel performed several ambitious corporate acquisitions in the early 1990s. It acquired Fleer (a trading card company), ToyBiz (a toy company), Panini Group (a sticker-maker company), Heroes World Distribution (a regional distributor of comic books), and SkyBox International (another trading card company). Most of these purchases backfired, with Marvel's operating costs increasing and the sales of its products decreasing.

By January, 1996, Marvel was already in trouble and fired 275 employees. Perleman tried raising more the sale of Toy Biz stock, and establishing a new film subsidiary for Marvel (Marvel Studios). His efforts did not rescue the company. In 1997, Marvel was taken over by a new owner, the conglomerate Icahn Enterprises. It was controlled then by businessman Carl Icahn.

In late 1997, a legal battle began for ownership of Marvel. By 1998, Marvel was acquired by ToyBiz. "ToyBiz and Marvel Entertainment Group were merged into Marvel Enterprises to bring it out of bankruptcy in June 1998."

3) The original Onslaught Saga only lasted for a few months (June-October, 1996). The storyline was concluded in "Onslaught Marvel Universe" #1 (October, 1996), with the apparent deaths of most of the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, and Dr. Doom.

4) "Heroes Reborn" featured the "dead" characters from the Onslaught Saga reborn in an alternate Earth. It lasted from November, 1996 to December, 1997. It was an interesting experiment, with rather mixed results.

Basically, Marvel "farmed out" the "Fantastic Four" and "Iron Man" titles to Jim Lee's WildStorm Productions, and "The Avengers" and "Captain America" titles to Rob Liefeld's Extreme Studios. They came up with modernized origin stories for the characters involved. Lee's titles sold well, Liefeld's titles underperformed and his contract was terminated early. WildStorm took over production of the other titles as well, and hired new writers to replace Liefeld.

While Marvel was satisfied with the increased sales, Lee declined the offer to continue working on these titles beyond their 13th issue. "Heroes Reborn: The Return" served as an epilogue, to bring most of the characters back to Earth-616.
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Re: Dividing Marvel Comics up into "Seasons" (or "Phases")...

Post by dimadick »

Col_Fury wrote: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:15 am Stan Lee was Editor in Chief from 1961-1972. The classic straight-Marvel years.
This is the list of Marvel's Editors-in-Chief so far:

*1) Martin Goodman (1939-1940). Nominal duties.
*2) Joe Simon (1939-1941).
*3) Stan Lee (1941-1942, 1945-1972).
*4) Vincent Fago (1942-1945).
*5) Roy Thomas (1972-1974).
*6) Len Wein (1974-1975).
*7) Marv Wolfman (1974-1975) for the black-and-white magazines, and (1975-1976) for the rest of the line.
*8) Gerry Conway (1976).
*9) Archie Goodwin (1976-1978).
*10) Jim Shooter (1978-1987).
*11) Tom DeFalco (1987-1994).
*12) Shared duties between Mark Gruenwald, Bob Harras, Bob Budiansky, Bobbie Chase, and Carl Potts (1994-1995).
*13) Bob Harras (1995-2000).
*14) Joe Quesada (2000-2011).
*15) Axel Alonso (2011-2017).
*16) C. B. Cebulski (2017-).
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