Actually, yeah, I think that should be the case.
CIVIL WAR to WORLD WAR HULK
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Col_Fury
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Re: CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION
WORLD WAR HULK was a crossover, I wonder if it should be CIVIL WAR to WORLD WAR HULK instead of CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION?
Actually, yeah, I think that should be the case.
Actually, yeah, I think that should be the case.
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wolverine7230
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Re: CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION
I disagree, World War Hulk was a very small event that did not have any real major ramifications for the rest of the Marvel Universe, other than the Hulk being back. I would personally treat it as we have treated events like IvX or Monsters Unleashed, a small crossover within this larger era between two major crossovers. That's just my thoughts, though.
Edit: My personal opinion is that there should be one list called SECRET INVASION to SIEGE, but of course Utopia was the starting point for the project, but it was also a ridiculously small event.
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Re: CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION
I tend to agree with wolverine on this one, although the list is rather long, and WWH is a convenient point to break it.wolverine7230 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:47 amWorld War Hulk was a very small event that did not have any real major ramifications for the rest of the Marvel Universe, other than the Hulk being back. I would personally treat it as we have treated events like IvX or Monsters Unleashed, a small crossover within this larger era between two major crossovers. That's just my thoughts, though.
Again, i tend to agree, but that also makes a very long list. Also, the Utopia to Siege chronology is missing a number of titles, and could probably use a review, if the Colonel is willing..wolverine7230 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:47 amMy personal opinion is that there should be one list called SECRET INVASION to SIEGE, but of course Utopia was the starting point for the project, but it was also a ridiculously small event.
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Re: CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION
I have no problem with it; review away! 
The more eyes we have on something makes it easier to spot any errors or whatnot.
As I'm sure everyone knows, we started with UTOPIA because that's where the Index series (basically) left off. No, it really isn't a good "before and after" marker, but we already had all the "before" stuff. But hey, if we're going to be looking things over...
Inhumans vs. X-Men is a crossover, sure, but it's not a line-wide crossover. It was only two books. WORLD WAR HULK, though, had a bunch of tie-in comics. It's a very clear "before and after" crossover, like CIVIL WAR, SECRET INVASION, etc. Ghost Rider, Iron Man: Director of SHIELD, Heroes For Hire, Avengers: the Initiative, Irredeemable Ant-Man, Incredible Hulk and Punisher War Journal all had tie-in issues to WWH, not to mention the various side minis (including an X-Men one).
UTOPIA, though, is more like Inhumans vs. X-Men. A crossover between two books, not really a universe-wide crossover.
MONSTERS UNLEASHED had a bunch one one-shots, but no proper ongoing series tie-ins. DAMNATION was a crossover between Doctor Strange, Iron Fist and Scarlet Spider. That's not enough to qualify (in my head, at least).
Also, I don't mind if a chronology batch is long or short. It's the clear markers I'm looking for.
So yeah, that's my thinking. With hindsight, in theory it should be:
CIVIL WAR
CIVIL WAR to WORLD WAR HULK
WORLD WAR HULK
WORLD WAR HULK to SECRET INVASION
SECRET INVASION
SECRET INVASION to SIEGE
SIEGE
etc.
Mileage may vary, of course.
The more eyes we have on something makes it easier to spot any errors or whatnot. As I'm sure everyone knows, we started with UTOPIA because that's where the Index series (basically) left off. No, it really isn't a good "before and after" marker, but we already had all the "before" stuff. But hey, if we're going to be looking things over...
Inhumans vs. X-Men is a crossover, sure, but it's not a line-wide crossover. It was only two books. WORLD WAR HULK, though, had a bunch of tie-in comics. It's a very clear "before and after" crossover, like CIVIL WAR, SECRET INVASION, etc. Ghost Rider, Iron Man: Director of SHIELD, Heroes For Hire, Avengers: the Initiative, Irredeemable Ant-Man, Incredible Hulk and Punisher War Journal all had tie-in issues to WWH, not to mention the various side minis (including an X-Men one).
UTOPIA, though, is more like Inhumans vs. X-Men. A crossover between two books, not really a universe-wide crossover.
MONSTERS UNLEASHED had a bunch one one-shots, but no proper ongoing series tie-ins. DAMNATION was a crossover between Doctor Strange, Iron Fist and Scarlet Spider. That's not enough to qualify (in my head, at least).
Also, I don't mind if a chronology batch is long or short. It's the clear markers I'm looking for.
So yeah, that's my thinking. With hindsight, in theory it should be:
CIVIL WAR
CIVIL WAR to WORLD WAR HULK
WORLD WAR HULK
WORLD WAR HULK to SECRET INVASION
SECRET INVASION
SECRET INVASION to SIEGE
SIEGE
etc.
Mileage may vary, of course.
-Daron Jensen
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StrayLamb
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Re: CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION
With that in mind, how about i change the title of the "Secret Invasion to Utopia" topic to "Secret Invasion to Siege" - incorporating the "Utopia to Siege" listings, and opening a review of that section..? Or is there a better way of doing it..
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Re: CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION
So
I have gone thru again using several X-Men. Will do so with some cosmic players now
No change in order
However, PEN:REL is giving a lot of grief. No way can order comic and have everyone index in right order
Having never read the comic nor have access to them, I don't know if this is possible because of the story structure of PEN:REL, or if indexes need changing
Fine with splitting this list in 2. It is a long list. Make no difference to the work being done. I am hoping some will contract the list done anyway
I have gone thru again using several X-Men. Will do so with some cosmic players now
No change in order
However, PEN:REL is giving a lot of grief. No way can order comic and have everyone index in right order
Having never read the comic nor have access to them, I don't know if this is possible because of the story structure of PEN:REL, or if indexes need changing
Fine with splitting this list in 2. It is a long list. Make no difference to the work being done
. I am hoping some will contract the list done anyway-
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Re: CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION
Looking into the placement of Penance: Relentless 1-5, i have found a number of anomalies. The lists below have been simplified, but reflect the individual chronologies.Siabod wrote: ↑Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:35 am However, PEN:REL is giving a lot of grief. No way can order comic and have everyone index in right order
Having never read the comic nor have access to them, I don't know if this is possible because of the story structure of PEN:REL, or if indexes need changing
Penance: Relentless supposedly takes place “147-153 days” (21-22 weeks) after the Stamford Incident.
For Robbie Baldwin we have..
TB 113-116
TB: BP
PEN:REL 1-5
NO4 2-3
WWHA: DAMCON 1-2
TB 117-121
Mac Gargan adds a little..
TB:BP (1-7)
SUB2 2-4 – FB
TB:BP (14-22)
For Norman Osborn we have..
TB 109-112 (1-13)
TB:DM 1
TB 112 (14-22) – 116
TB:BP
PEN:REL 1-5
TB 117-122
Moonstone gves us…
CW:I
TB 110-112
TB:DM
TB 113-116
TB:BP
PEN:REL 1-3
NO4 2-3
WWHA:DAMCON 1-2
Tony Stark yields the following..
FSON:IM (18-23)
MSM2 14
PWJ2 11
T3 3
OF 2
CA 600/4
SUB2 1-6 – FB
SUB2 1-6
M/CP2 4/4-10/4 [Guardian]
PEN:REL 2-4
IRRANT 7 (10-20)
MA 1-7 (1-6)
CW:BDR (8:2-65)
MA 7 (7-23)
NA 35
MA 8-11
CA5 27
WWH:FL 3/3
IM:DOS 15-16
IRRANT 9
NO4 1-3
A:I 2
IM:DOS 17-18
HFH2 5
NW4 1-6
ORDER2 1
CW:BDR (1 - 6)-BTS
SILWAR 5
SH2 17-18
IH3 106
Wolverine gives us..
FSON:IM
X2 200-204
NX2 38-41
M/CP2 8/3 [Cyclops &Wolverine]
X:ES
NX2 42
SH2 16
SUB2 2-3 – FB
PEN:REL 3-5
NA 27-34
MA 8
NA 36 (1-20:3)
NA 35
NA 36 (20:5-22)
C&DP 43-44
NW4 2-3
W@2 1
WWH:X 1-3
WWHA:DAMCON 1-3
Checking on She-Hulk, we have..
SH2 15-16
FSON:IM [Wolverine has SH2 16 after FSON:IM, but I’m not sure yet if that poses a problem]
IRRANT 8
A:I 1
FF 547
SH2 17-18
IH3 106
This brings in the Fantastic Four, and Black Panther, Storm, Dr Strange, and Silver Surfer all appear in FF 550..
Reed Richards gives us..
FSON:IM
FF 543-544 ~ BP4 26
FF 545-550
SUB2 4
PEN:REL 3-4
MA 6
GSA2 1/8
SILWAR 1
FF@ 33
IH3 106
WWH 1
GR6 13
WWH 2
Ben Grimm & Human Torch both give us..
FSON:IM
FF 543-544 ~ BP4 26
FF 545-547
BP4 27-34
DP/GLI:SUMF
UX 489
C&DP 45-46
NW4 2 [Here we have a problem – both Iron Man & Wolverine have NW4 1-6 well after PEN:REL 1-5]
FF 547-550
PEN:REL 3-4
SILWAR 1
FF@ 33
DD@3 1
A:I 3
GR6 12
WWH 2
Invisible Woman doesn’t help us.
Black Panther gives us..
BP4 28-34
CW:BDR-FB
DP/GLI:SUMF
C&DP 45-46
NW4 2-5
FF 547-550
WWH 2
Storm gives us..
UX 487-491
C&DP 45-46
NW4 2-5
FF 547-550
WWH 2
Dr Strange gives us..
FSON:IM
NX2 41-42
UX 491/2
XF3 24/2
NA 27-34
MA 8
NA 36 (1 - 20:3)
NA 35
NA 36 (20:5 - 22)
NW4 2 [This places NW4 2 even earlier than the Thing/Torch listings]
C&DP 46-48
FF 550
FF@ 33
DD@3 1
W@2 1
WWH 1
A:I 4
WWH 2 (1 - 9:2)
GR6 13
WWH 2 (29 - 35:3)
Putting all of this together, we get the following..
FSON:IM (18-23)
MSM2 14
PWJ2 11
T3 3
OF 2
CA 600/4
X2 200-204
NX2 38-41
M/CP2 8/3 [Cyclops &Wolverine]
X:ES
NX2 42
SH2 16 [According to Wolverine]
FF 543-544 ~ BP4 26
FF 545-550 [Before SUB2 according to Mr Fantastic]
BP4 27-34
CW:BDR-FB
DP/GLI:SUMF
UX 487-491
UX 491/2
XF3 24/2
TB:BP (1-7)
SUB2 1-6 – FB [According to Iron Man & Wolverine]
SUB2 1-6 [According to Iron Man & Wolverine]
TB:BP (14-22)
M/CP2 4/4-10/4 [Guardian]
PEN:REL 1-5 [According to Iron Man]
IRRANT 7 (10-20)
IRRANT 8
A:I 1
FF 547 [According to She-Hulk]
MA 1-7 (1-6)
GSA2 1/8
CW:BDR (8:2-65)
NA 27-32 [After PEN:REL 1-5 according to Wolverine]
MA 7 (7-23)
MA 8 (1-20)
NA 33-34
MA 7 (7-23)
NA 35
NA 36 (20:5-22)
MA 8-11
CA5 27
WWH:FL 3/3
IM:DOS 15-16
IRRANT 9
NO4 1-3
A:I 2
IM:DOS 17-18
HFH2 5
C&DP 43-44 [After NA 36 according to Wolverine]
NW4 2 [Before C&DP 46 according to Dr Strange]
C&DP 45-48 [This placement according to Thing, Human Torch, Black Panther & Storm]
NW4 1-6 [This placement according to Thing, Human Torch, Black Panther & Storm]
FF 547-550 [This placement according to Thing, Human Torch, Black Panther & Storm]
PEN:REL 1-5 [After FF 547-550 according to Thing & Human Torch]
NO4 1-3 [After PEN:REL 1-5 according to Iron Man & Moonstone]
NW4 1-6 [After PEN:REL 1-5 according to Iron Man & Wolverine]
ORDER2 1
CW:BDR (1 - 6)-BTS
SILWAR 1-5
SH2 17-18
FF@ 33
DD@3 1
W@2 1
A:I 3
IH3 106
WWH 1
I can’t make head or tail out of it at this stage.. will have another look later..
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StrayLamb
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Re: CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION
It appears that a group of titles were moved for the Index series, but were left as they were for a number of non-Index characters. The placement for Penance: Relentless as it's placed in Siobod's list conforms with the Index series, and appears to be the correct placement. When i get a chance, i'll submit the required changes for each character..
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StrayLamb
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Re: CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION
NOPE - that's not right either 
The list provided above by Russ appears to be the list that was used for the Iron Man & Wolverine Indexes.
After the Indexes were released, robfj posted a relevant topic here.. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9791&p=46135
This topic submitted a number of proposed changes in the previously established chronology, some of which appear to have been used for some characters. Robfj submitted that A:LBM, SUB2, and PEN:REL should all be moved prior to MA 1 - 6, and thus prior to WWH. Robfj's suggested placements for SUB2 & PEN:REL appear to have mostly been implemented, with just a little juggling either way, apart from A:LBM, which has been left where it began, post-WWH, but some of the fix-up's haven't quite lined up with robfj's scheme, or have been altered again since. Also, some of the MCP listings still seem to favor placements according to Paul Bourcier's Marvel Calendar. Either way, some character appearances need to be adjusted to make everything gel.
It appears that the MCP has opted to place SUB2 & PEN:REL after Mr Fantastic and Invisible Woman return from Titan in FF 547 - 550, which would seem to place these issues after MA 1 - 11. Within the MCP some characters seem to have the placement before MA 1 - 11, and some after. I'm going to try to line everything up with what the MCP seems to want.
It looks like things go together like this - not a fully comprehensive spine, but suitable for placing SUB2 & PEN:REL..
Fallen Son: Wolverine
Fallen Son: Avengers
Fallen Son: Captain America
Fallen Son: Spider-Man
Fallen Son: Iron Man
Mighty Avengers 17
New Avengers 28-30 [Flashback Sequences]
Ms Marvel 13-14 [The Initiative][The Deal]
Punisher War Journal 5-10
Thor 1-10
Valkyrie II 1
Omega Flight 1-2
Iron Fist 1-14
Captain America 600/4
Civil War: The Confession 1
Civil War: The Initiative 1
Captain America 26
Punisher War Journal 11-15
X-Men 194-197
X-Men 198 (1-18)
Cable & Deadpool 40
X-Men 198 (19-23)
X-Men 199
Cable & Deadpool 41
X-Men 200/1 ~ Cable & Deadpool 42
X-Men 201/1-204/1
Marvel Comics Presents 8/3 [Cyclops & Wolverine]
New X-Men 37/1-41/1
Fantastic Four 543
Fantastic Four 544 (1-7)
Black Panther 26
Fantastic Four 544 (8-20)
Fantastic Four 545
Fantastic Four 546 (1-7)
Fantastic Four 546 (12-22)
Black Panther 27-34
Civil War: Battle Damage Report 1 (Flashback)
Deadpool/GLI Summer Fun Spectacular 1/1
Deadpool/GLI Summer Fun Spectacular 1/4
Uncanny X-Men 476-486 [The Rise and Fall of the Sh’iar Empire]
She-Hulk 16
Thunderbolts 109-111 [Osborn recruits Bullseye & Moonstone; takes down Jack Flag]
Thunderbolts 112 (1-13)
Thunderbolts: Desperate Measures
Thunderbolts 112 (14-22)
Thunderbolts 113-116
Thunderbolts: Breaking Point 1 (1-7)
X-Men: Endangered Species 1
New X-Men 42
X-Men 200/2
Uncanny X-Men 488/2
X-Factor 21/2
New X-Men 40/2
X-Men 201/2
Uncanny X-Men 489/2
X-Factor 22/2
New X-Men 41/2
X-Men 202/2
Uncanny X-Men 490/2
X-Factor 23/2
New X-Men 42/2
X-Men 203/2
Uncanny X-Men 491/2
X-Factor 24/2
New X-Men 43/2
X-Men 204/2
X-Factor 21/1-24/1
Uncanny X-Men 487/1-491/1
Irredeemable Ant-Man 6-8
Mighty Avengers 1 (2-38)
Mighty Avengers 2-6 [Avengers Initiative Day 1]
Mighty Avengers 7 (1-6)
Civil War: Battle Damage Report 1 (8:2-65)
New Avengers 27-32
Mighty Avengers 7 (7-23)
Mighty Avengers 8 (1-20)
New Avengers 33-34
New Avengers 36 (1-20:3)
New Avengers 35
New Avengers 36 (20:5-22)
New Avengers 37
Mighty Avengers 8 (21-22)
Mighty Avengers 9-11 [Avengers Initiative Day 14]
Captain America 27
World War Hulk: Frontline 3/3
Iron Man: Director of SHIELD 15-16
Irredeemable Ant-Man 9
Nova 1-3
Ms Marvel 15-17
Annihilation Conquest: Prologue
Annihilation Conquest: Quasar 1-4
Annihilation Conquest: Star Lord 1-4
Annihilation Conquest: Wraith 1-4
Nova 4-10
Nova Annual 1
Annihilation Conquest 1-6
Nova 11-12
Guardians of the Galaxy 1-3
Nova 13-15
Wisdom 1-6
Avengers: Initiative 1-2
Iron Man: Director of SHIELD 17-18
Heroes for Hire 5
Cable & Deadpool 43-48
New Warriors 1-6
Fantastic Four 546 (8-11)
Fantastic Four 547-550 [FF, T’Challa, Storm, Dr Strange, Silver Surfer & Gravity repair Infinity]
Sub-Mariner: The Initiative 1-6 [Flashback Sequence]
Sub-Mariner: The Initiative 1-6
Thunderbolts: Breaking Point 1 (8-22)
Marvel Comics Presents 1/4-12/4
Penance: Relentless 1 [147 days/21 weeks since Stamford Incident]
Penance: Relentless 2-5 [148-153 days; Robbie Baldwin goes after Nitro]
The Order II 1-2
Civil War: Battle Damage Report 1 (1-6)
Silent War 1-6
Giant-Size Avengers 1
Wolverine Annual 1
Fantastic Four Annual 33
Daredevil 2012 Annual 1
Wolverine 2012 Annual 1
Avengers: Initiative 3
Marvel Comics Presents 8/3 [Sub-Mariner]
Ghost Rider 8-11
She-Hulk 17-18
Incredible Hulk 106
The affected individual character chronologies will need to be amended as follows, and I've included some fix ups from robfj's topic that have yet to be incorporated:
DOCTOR DOOM/VICTOR VON DOOM
---
FOHS:A (23 - 28:2)
T3 5-FB * MOVE TO HERE
DP/GLI:SUMF /6 * MOVE TO HERE
X2 200/2
UX 488/2-FB
T3 5-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
DP/GLI:SUMF /6 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 4-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 4 * MOVE FROM HERE
MA 7-BTS
MA 9
MA 10
MA 11
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 4-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 4 * MOVE TO HERE
FNSM 24
---
GREEN GOBLIN/NORMAN OSBORN JR.
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112 (1 - 13)
TB:DM 1 * CHANGE TO TB:DM
TB 112 (14 - 22)
TB 113
TB 115
TB 116
TB:BP (1 - 13)
TB:BP-FB * CHANGE TO TB:BP (21:2)-FB
SUB-M3 2-FB * ADD - appears on p.17
TB:BP (14 - 22)
PEN:REL 1
---
HILL, MARIA
---
MSM2 13
BP4 27
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 1 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 3 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 5 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE FROM HERE
NA 30-FB-VO
IRRANT 4-BTS
IRRANT 5-BTS
---
IM:DOS 18
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 1 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 3 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 5 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE TO HERE
SILWAR 2
SILWAR 4
SILWAR 5
SILWAR 6
---
IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK
---
T3 3
OF 2
CA 600/4
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 5-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 6-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 1 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 2 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 3 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 4 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 5 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE FROM HERE
M/CP2 4/4 * MOVE FROM HERE
M/CP2 6/4 * MOVE FROM HERE
M/CP2 10/4 * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 2 * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 3 * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 4 * MOVE FROM HERE
NA 30-FB
MA 1 (1) ~ IRRANT 7 (10 - 11)
MA 1 (2 - 3)
---
NW4 5
NW4 6
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 5-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 6-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 1 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 2 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 3 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 4 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 5 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE TO HERE
M/CP2 4/4 * MOVE TO HERE
M/CP2 6/4 * MOVE TO HERE
M/CP2 10/4 * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 2 * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 3 * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 4 * MOVE TO HERE
ORDER2 1
CW:BDR (1 - 6)-BTS
SILWAR 5
---
MOONSTONE II/KARLA SOFEN
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112
TB:DM-FB * CHANGE TO TB:DM (1:1)-FB
TB:DM
TB 113
TB 114
TB 115
TB 116
TB:BP (1 - 13)
TB:BP-FB * CHANGE TO TB:BP (21:2)-FB
TB:BP (14 - 22)
PEN:REL 1
PEN:REL 3
NO4 2
NO4 3
WWHA:DAMCON 1
---
MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS
---
FF 544 (8 - 9)
FF 545
FF 546
MA 6 * MOVE TO HERE
FF 547
FF 548
FF 549
FF 550
SUB2 4
PEN:REL 3
PEN:REL 4
MA 6 * MOVE FROM HERE
GSA2 1/8-BTS
SILWAR 1
---
SHE-HULK/JENNIFER WALTERS
---
SH2 15
IH3 106 (1:4)-FB
FSON:IM * MOVE TO HERE
SH2 16
SH2 17-FB
FSON:IM * MOVE FROM HERE
IRRANT 8
---
SONGBIRD/MELISSA JOAN GOLD
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112
TB:DM 1-FB * DELETE – DOES NOT APPEAR
TB:DM 1 * CHANGE TO TB:DM
TB 113
TB 114
TB 115
---
SPEEDBALL/ROBBIE BALDWIN
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112
DP/GLI:SUMF /4
TB:DM-FB * CHANGE TO TB:DM (1:1)-FB
TB:DM
---
SWORDSMAN III/ANDREAS STRUCKER
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112
TB:DM-FB * CHANGE TO TB:DM (1:1)-FB
TB:DM
---
VENOM IV/MACDONALD GARGAN
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112
TB:DM-FB * CHANGE TO TB:DM (1:1)-FB
TB 113
TB 114
TB 115
---
WOLVERINE/"LOGAN"/JAMES HOWLETT
---
SH2 16
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 3 * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 5 * MOVE FROM HERE
NA 29 (17:6 - 21)-FB
NA 30-FB
NA 27
---
C&DP 43
C&DP 44
NW4 2
NW4 3
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 3 * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 5 * MOVE TO HERE
W@2 1
WWH:X 1
---
The list provided above by Russ appears to be the list that was used for the Iron Man & Wolverine Indexes.
After the Indexes were released, robfj posted a relevant topic here.. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9791&p=46135
This topic submitted a number of proposed changes in the previously established chronology, some of which appear to have been used for some characters. Robfj submitted that A:LBM, SUB2, and PEN:REL should all be moved prior to MA 1 - 6, and thus prior to WWH. Robfj's suggested placements for SUB2 & PEN:REL appear to have mostly been implemented, with just a little juggling either way, apart from A:LBM, which has been left where it began, post-WWH, but some of the fix-up's haven't quite lined up with robfj's scheme, or have been altered again since. Also, some of the MCP listings still seem to favor placements according to Paul Bourcier's Marvel Calendar. Either way, some character appearances need to be adjusted to make everything gel.
It appears that the MCP has opted to place SUB2 & PEN:REL after Mr Fantastic and Invisible Woman return from Titan in FF 547 - 550, which would seem to place these issues after MA 1 - 11. Within the MCP some characters seem to have the placement before MA 1 - 11, and some after. I'm going to try to line everything up with what the MCP seems to want.
It looks like things go together like this - not a fully comprehensive spine, but suitable for placing SUB2 & PEN:REL..
Fallen Son: Wolverine
Fallen Son: Avengers
Fallen Son: Captain America
Fallen Son: Spider-Man
Fallen Son: Iron Man
Mighty Avengers 17
New Avengers 28-30 [Flashback Sequences]
Ms Marvel 13-14 [The Initiative][The Deal]
Punisher War Journal 5-10
Thor 1-10
Valkyrie II 1
Omega Flight 1-2
Iron Fist 1-14
Captain America 600/4
Civil War: The Confession 1
Civil War: The Initiative 1
Captain America 26
Punisher War Journal 11-15
X-Men 194-197
X-Men 198 (1-18)
Cable & Deadpool 40
X-Men 198 (19-23)
X-Men 199
Cable & Deadpool 41
X-Men 200/1 ~ Cable & Deadpool 42
X-Men 201/1-204/1
Marvel Comics Presents 8/3 [Cyclops & Wolverine]
New X-Men 37/1-41/1
Fantastic Four 543
Fantastic Four 544 (1-7)
Black Panther 26
Fantastic Four 544 (8-20)
Fantastic Four 545
Fantastic Four 546 (1-7)
Fantastic Four 546 (12-22)
Black Panther 27-34
Civil War: Battle Damage Report 1 (Flashback)
Deadpool/GLI Summer Fun Spectacular 1/1
Deadpool/GLI Summer Fun Spectacular 1/4
Uncanny X-Men 476-486 [The Rise and Fall of the Sh’iar Empire]
She-Hulk 16
Thunderbolts 109-111 [Osborn recruits Bullseye & Moonstone; takes down Jack Flag]
Thunderbolts 112 (1-13)
Thunderbolts: Desperate Measures
Thunderbolts 112 (14-22)
Thunderbolts 113-116
Thunderbolts: Breaking Point 1 (1-7)
X-Men: Endangered Species 1
New X-Men 42
X-Men 200/2
Uncanny X-Men 488/2
X-Factor 21/2
New X-Men 40/2
X-Men 201/2
Uncanny X-Men 489/2
X-Factor 22/2
New X-Men 41/2
X-Men 202/2
Uncanny X-Men 490/2
X-Factor 23/2
New X-Men 42/2
X-Men 203/2
Uncanny X-Men 491/2
X-Factor 24/2
New X-Men 43/2
X-Men 204/2
X-Factor 21/1-24/1
Uncanny X-Men 487/1-491/1
Irredeemable Ant-Man 6-8
Mighty Avengers 1 (2-38)
Mighty Avengers 2-6 [Avengers Initiative Day 1]
Mighty Avengers 7 (1-6)
Civil War: Battle Damage Report 1 (8:2-65)
New Avengers 27-32
Mighty Avengers 7 (7-23)
Mighty Avengers 8 (1-20)
New Avengers 33-34
New Avengers 36 (1-20:3)
New Avengers 35
New Avengers 36 (20:5-22)
New Avengers 37
Mighty Avengers 8 (21-22)
Mighty Avengers 9-11 [Avengers Initiative Day 14]
Captain America 27
World War Hulk: Frontline 3/3
Iron Man: Director of SHIELD 15-16
Irredeemable Ant-Man 9
Nova 1-3
Ms Marvel 15-17
Annihilation Conquest: Prologue
Annihilation Conquest: Quasar 1-4
Annihilation Conquest: Star Lord 1-4
Annihilation Conquest: Wraith 1-4
Nova 4-10
Nova Annual 1
Annihilation Conquest 1-6
Nova 11-12
Guardians of the Galaxy 1-3
Nova 13-15
Wisdom 1-6
Avengers: Initiative 1-2
Iron Man: Director of SHIELD 17-18
Heroes for Hire 5
Cable & Deadpool 43-48
New Warriors 1-6
Fantastic Four 546 (8-11)
Fantastic Four 547-550 [FF, T’Challa, Storm, Dr Strange, Silver Surfer & Gravity repair Infinity]
Sub-Mariner: The Initiative 1-6 [Flashback Sequence]
Sub-Mariner: The Initiative 1-6
Thunderbolts: Breaking Point 1 (8-22)
Marvel Comics Presents 1/4-12/4
Penance: Relentless 1 [147 days/21 weeks since Stamford Incident]
Penance: Relentless 2-5 [148-153 days; Robbie Baldwin goes after Nitro]
The Order II 1-2
Civil War: Battle Damage Report 1 (1-6)
Silent War 1-6
Giant-Size Avengers 1
Wolverine Annual 1
Fantastic Four Annual 33
Daredevil 2012 Annual 1
Wolverine 2012 Annual 1
Avengers: Initiative 3
Marvel Comics Presents 8/3 [Sub-Mariner]
Ghost Rider 8-11
She-Hulk 17-18
Incredible Hulk 106
The affected individual character chronologies will need to be amended as follows, and I've included some fix ups from robfj's topic that have yet to be incorporated:
DOCTOR DOOM/VICTOR VON DOOM
---
FOHS:A (23 - 28:2)
T3 5-FB * MOVE TO HERE
DP/GLI:SUMF /6 * MOVE TO HERE
X2 200/2
UX 488/2-FB
T3 5-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
DP/GLI:SUMF /6 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 4-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 4 * MOVE FROM HERE
MA 7-BTS
MA 9
MA 10
MA 11
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 4-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 4 * MOVE TO HERE
FNSM 24
---
GREEN GOBLIN/NORMAN OSBORN JR.
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112 (1 - 13)
TB:DM 1 * CHANGE TO TB:DM
TB 112 (14 - 22)
TB 113
TB 115
TB 116
TB:BP (1 - 13)
TB:BP-FB * CHANGE TO TB:BP (21:2)-FB
SUB-M3 2-FB * ADD - appears on p.17
TB:BP (14 - 22)
PEN:REL 1
---
HILL, MARIA
---
MSM2 13
BP4 27
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 1 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 3 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 5 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE FROM HERE
NA 30-FB-VO
IRRANT 4-BTS
IRRANT 5-BTS
---
IM:DOS 18
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 1 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 3 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 5 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE TO HERE
SILWAR 2
SILWAR 4
SILWAR 5
SILWAR 6
---
IRON MAN/ANTHONY EDWARD "TONY" STARK
---
T3 3
OF 2
CA 600/4
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 5-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 6-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 1 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 2 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 3 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 4 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 5 * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE FROM HERE
M/CP2 4/4 * MOVE FROM HERE
M/CP2 6/4 * MOVE FROM HERE
M/CP2 10/4 * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 2 * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 3 * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 4 * MOVE FROM HERE
NA 30-FB
MA 1 (1) ~ IRRANT 7 (10 - 11)
MA 1 (2 - 3)
---
NW4 5
NW4 6
SUB2 1-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 5-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 6-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 1 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 2 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 3 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 4 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 5 * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 6 * MOVE TO HERE
M/CP2 4/4 * MOVE TO HERE
M/CP2 6/4 * MOVE TO HERE
M/CP2 10/4 * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 2 * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 3 * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 4 * MOVE TO HERE
ORDER2 1
CW:BDR (1 - 6)-BTS
SILWAR 5
---
MOONSTONE II/KARLA SOFEN
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112
TB:DM-FB * CHANGE TO TB:DM (1:1)-FB
TB:DM
TB 113
TB 114
TB 115
TB 116
TB:BP (1 - 13)
TB:BP-FB * CHANGE TO TB:BP (21:2)-FB
TB:BP (14 - 22)
PEN:REL 1
PEN:REL 3
NO4 2
NO4 3
WWHA:DAMCON 1
---
MR. FANTASTIC/REED RICHARDS
---
FF 544 (8 - 9)
FF 545
FF 546
MA 6 * MOVE TO HERE
FF 547
FF 548
FF 549
FF 550
SUB2 4
PEN:REL 3
PEN:REL 4
MA 6 * MOVE FROM HERE
GSA2 1/8-BTS
SILWAR 1
---
SHE-HULK/JENNIFER WALTERS
---
SH2 15
IH3 106 (1:4)-FB
FSON:IM * MOVE TO HERE
SH2 16
SH2 17-FB
FSON:IM * MOVE FROM HERE
IRRANT 8
---
SONGBIRD/MELISSA JOAN GOLD
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112
TB:DM 1-FB * DELETE – DOES NOT APPEAR
TB:DM 1 * CHANGE TO TB:DM
TB 113
TB 114
TB 115
---
SPEEDBALL/ROBBIE BALDWIN
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112
DP/GLI:SUMF /4
TB:DM-FB * CHANGE TO TB:DM (1:1)-FB
TB:DM
---
SWORDSMAN III/ANDREAS STRUCKER
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112
TB:DM-FB * CHANGE TO TB:DM (1:1)-FB
TB:DM
---
VENOM IV/MACDONALD GARGAN
---
TB 110
TB 111
TB 112
TB:DM-FB * CHANGE TO TB:DM (1:1)-FB
TB 113
TB 114
TB 115
---
WOLVERINE/"LOGAN"/JAMES HOWLETT
---
SH2 16
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 3 * MOVE FROM HERE
PEN:REL 5 * MOVE FROM HERE
NA 29 (17:6 - 21)-FB
NA 30-FB
NA 27
---
C&DP 43
C&DP 44
NW4 2
NW4 3
SUB2 2-FB * MOVE TO HERE
SUB2 3-FB * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 3 * MOVE TO HERE
PEN:REL 5 * MOVE TO HERE
W@2 1
WWH:X 1
---
Out in the Land Down-Under, beneath a rocky outcrop, deep within the back paddock, dwells the Stray Lamb.
Re: CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION
Thanks Nick
Like you've highlighted there is no possible way to make every index line up right.
Submitting changes to characters indexes is a little beyond me
Post another update once gone thru cosmic characters (Nova, Quasar, Ronan, Star Lord, Silver Surfer)
Like you've highlighted there is no possible way to make every index line up right.
Submitting changes to characters indexes is a little beyond me
Post another update once gone thru cosmic characters (Nova, Quasar, Ronan, Star Lord, Silver Surfer)
-
StrayLamb
- Director
- Posts: 2362
- Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:42 am
- Location: a sheep paddock, along the Great Eastern Highway
Re: CIVIL WAR to SECRET INVASION
Hi Siabod..
Can i get you to change the Topic heading from "Civil War to Secret Invasion" to "Civil War to World War Hulk" (use the edit icon at the top of your post to change the Subject box), and cut/paste the post-WWH list into a new topic labelled World War Hulk to Secret Invasion. That way we can make discussions on that section separately. I'll create two new topics for Civil War & World War Hulk.
Thanks.!
Can i get you to change the Topic heading from "Civil War to Secret Invasion" to "Civil War to World War Hulk" (use the edit icon at the top of your post to change the Subject box), and cut/paste the post-WWH list into a new topic labelled World War Hulk to Secret Invasion. That way we can make discussions on that section separately. I'll create two new topics for Civil War & World War Hulk.
Thanks.!
Out in the Land Down-Under, beneath a rocky outcrop, deep within the back paddock, dwells the Stray Lamb.
-
StrayLamb
- Director
- Posts: 2362
- Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:42 am
- Location: a sheep paddock, along the Great Eastern Highway
Re: CIVIL WAR to WORLD WAR HULK
Don't worry - it's done!
Out in the Land Down-Under, beneath a rocky outcrop, deep within the back paddock, dwells the Stray Lamb.
Re: CIVIL WAR to WORLD WAR HULK
BP4 26 (9 - 10)
FF 543/2
FF 543 (1 - 26)
FF 543/2
FF 543 (1 - 26)
Re: CIVIL WAR to WORLD WAR HULK
A:I 3 has been split into (1-6:3) and (6:4-7:3) but the rest (7:4-22) seems to have been omitted. It's not here or in World War Hulk. A;I 3 the issue gives no indication that any of it is part of WWH.
Its earliest mention has the whole thing before WWH a bit later than where (6:4-7:3) is now. Then it was split in 3 with (7:4-22) just after WWH PROLOGUE: WORLD BREAKER, ie just inside what will become the separate WWH.
Then the thread got split in 3 and the new list for this thread ended with a brief note mentioning what had been moved to WWH, including A:I 3-5. What part of #3 was meant was unspecified but (1-6:3) and (6:4-7:3) were still in this shrunken thread.
But the WWH thread makes no mention of Avengers: Initiative 3. So that's where it obviously fell between 2 stools.
Then on page 2 of this thread an analysis by Stray Lamb based on Penance: Relentless suggested among many other things putting the whole of A:I 3 between W@2 1 (the very end of this chronology) and IH3 106 (the very start of the WWH chronology) - so it could count in either. His later rethink still had it between those 2 issues but with some other issues added between A:I 3 and IH3 106.
Since A:I 3 (7:4-22) still has no specific home here or in WWH I suggest placing it where Stray Lamb suggested the whole issue should go, immediately after W@2 1 at the end of this chronology.
Its earliest mention has the whole thing before WWH a bit later than where (6:4-7:3) is now. Then it was split in 3 with (7:4-22) just after WWH PROLOGUE: WORLD BREAKER, ie just inside what will become the separate WWH.
Then the thread got split in 3 and the new list for this thread ended with a brief note mentioning what had been moved to WWH, including A:I 3-5. What part of #3 was meant was unspecified but (1-6:3) and (6:4-7:3) were still in this shrunken thread.
But the WWH thread makes no mention of Avengers: Initiative 3. So that's where it obviously fell between 2 stools.
Then on page 2 of this thread an analysis by Stray Lamb based on Penance: Relentless suggested among many other things putting the whole of A:I 3 between W@2 1 (the very end of this chronology) and IH3 106 (the very start of the WWH chronology) - so it could count in either. His later rethink still had it between those 2 issues but with some other issues added between A:I 3 and IH3 106.
Since A:I 3 (7:4-22) still has no specific home here or in WWH I suggest placing it where Stray Lamb suggested the whole issue should go, immediately after W@2 1 at the end of this chronology.