Heavy (The Order #9)

[Mikhail]

Although they didn't come right out and say it, my understanding is that Heavy was present at the fateful attack where Tony Stark was bombed with shrapnel and taken captive by the enemy, thus leading to the origin of Iron Man. This means that Dennis Murray should technically be listed as present, or at least BTS, to the origin of Iron Man. The problem is...which origin?

The scene of the jeep exploding seen in Order #9 is not what happened in ToS #39. Shellhead's origin has been updated several times, of course, to avoid Vietnam references. I can think of Iron Man #268 and the current Iron Man: Director of SHIELD #5 just off the top of my head. My question is, does "Heavy's origin" jive with any of the Iron Man origin retellings? Should Heavy just get a "ToS 39 - BTS" listing for simplicity's sake?

[michaelyuri]

Although they didn't come right out and say it, my understanding is that Heavy was present at the fateful attack where Tony Stark was bombed with shrapnel and taken captive by the enemy, thus leading to the origin of Iron Man. This means that Dennis Murray should technically be listed as present, or at least BTS, to the origin of Iron Man.

I don't think this is enough to qualify for a behind-the-scenes listing. Directors, please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I understand it, a BTS entry is only given when the character actually has some significant impact on the events shown on panel. So, for example, if it was revealed that Dennis Murphy was directly responsible for certain events shown on panel during the Iron Man origin, then he would get a BTS listing, but just being present but not shown on panel isn't enough.

This brings up another question I've been wondering about, though. How exactly is the "OP" code intended to be used? The Key describes it as "Off-Panel: standing off-panel OR the bts character is literally controlling another, as in Karma or Puppet Master." The second part of that definition (mind-control, etc.) is self-explanatory, but what are the criteria for a "standing off-panel" listing?

[Col_Fury]

I don't think this is enough to qualify for a behind-the-scenes listing. Directors, please correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I understand it, a BTS entry is only given when the character actually has some significant impact on the events shown on panel. So, for example, if it was revealed that Dennis Murphy was directly responsible for certain events shown on panel during the Iron Man origin, then he would get a BTS listing, but just being present but not shown on panel isn't enough.

Right. In this case, Murphy would only get ORDER 9-FB in his listing, but no TOSs. Now how ORDER 9-FB fits into Tony Stark's chronology...

This brings up another question I've been wondering about, though. How exactly is the "OP" code intended to be used? The Key describes it as "Off-Panel: standing off-panel OR the bts character is literally controlling another, as in Karma or Puppet Master." The second part of that definition (mind-control, etc.) is self-explanatory, but what are the criteria for a "standing off-panel" listing?

Let's say in X-Men #1234 Colossus and Professor X are chatting in the bathroom, but it's revealed through dialogue or something that Cyclops is in the next stall over. We don't see Cyclops for the rest of the issue, his only appearance is hidden by the bathroom stall door. He's there, but we don't see him, he's just off-panel.

Or, let's say that Amazing Spider-Man #987 & Hulk #1278 cross over. Mary Jane is present in ASM & Betty is present in HULK, but not vice-versa. The two issues show parts of the same conversation, so Mary Jane would get an OP for HULK and Betty would get an OP for ASM, because they're both there but just off-panel.