Placement of Annihilation

Post by **StrayLamb** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:37 pm

Midnighter wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:01 amEven a little Annihilation needs to be revised, due to a couple of Mr. Fantastic and Grandmaster appearances that need to be placed better, but I'll check them out sooner.

Speaking of Annihilation, Frank has pointed out to me that Galactus appears in Eternals 6 between Annihilation: Silver Surfer 1-4 & Annihilation 1-6. Provisionally, i'm moving Annihilation 1-6 & Heralds 1-2 to the following position..

---
Civil War 5 (18-22)
Annihilation 1-6
Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus 1-2
New X-Men 32
---

He may post this elsewhere, but Frank also made the following observation..

Frank wrote:Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:17 pmThe Appartion of Veranke in New Avengers 45 (Pages 20 - 23) is just after the end of Prologue annihilation (Pages 38-42) in my opinion. What do you think?

Any thoughts?

Post by **Midnighter** » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:31 am

StrayLamb wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:37 pm

He may post this elsewhere, but Frank also made the following observation..

Frank wrote:Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:17 pmThe Appartion of Veranke in New Avengers 45 (Pages 20 - 23) is just after the end of Prologue annihilation (Pages 38-42) in my opinion. What do you think?
Any thoughts?

Yes, it is explicitly indicated "Fifteen days after the Annihilation Day".
Also, there is a cameo of Grandmaster in Annihilation: Ronan 3 that is currently placed between Thunderbolts 105 and 107, placing that mini much later in the chronology.

Post by **StrayLamb** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:25 pm

Midnighter wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:31 am
StrayLamb wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:37 pm

He may post this elsewhere, but Frank also made the following observation..

Frank wrote:Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:17 pmThe Appartion of Veranke in New Avengers 45 (Pages 20 - 23) is just after the end of Prologue annihilation (Pages 38-42) in my opinion. What do you think?
Any thoughts?
Yes, it is explicitly indicated "Fifteen days after the Annihilation Day".
Also, there is a cameo of Grandmaster in Annihilation: Ronan 3 that is currently placed between Thunderbolts 105 and 107, placing that mini much later in the chronology.

I've had a chance to look into this more closely. Here's what i've come up with..

Avengers Disassembled to House of M (non-existent chronology - currently)
Annihilation: Prologue 1 (1) [Annihilation Day -7]
Annihilation: Prologue 1 (2 - 8) [Annihilation Day]
Annihilation: Prologue 1 (9 - 35) [Annihilation Day + 7]
Annihilation: Nova 1-4 [Annihilation Day + 11]
Annihilation: Prologue 1 (36- 37) [Annihilation Day + 12]

House of M to Decimation (non-existent chronology - currently)
House of M 8 (1 - 19) [M-Day + 1]
Annihilation: Prologue 1 (38- 42) [Annihilation Day + 15]
New Avengers 45 (20 - 23) [M-Day + 1 (evening)/Annihilation Day + 15]
House of M 8 (20 - 19) [M-Day + 2]
Annihilation: Silver Surfer 1 [Annihilation Day + 17]
Annihilation: Silver Surfer 2 [Annihilation Day + 19]
Annihilation: Silver Surfer 3 (1 - 13) [Annihilation Day + 21]
Annihilation: Silver Surfer 3 (1 - 13) [Annihilation Day + 22]
Annihilation: Silver Surfer 4 (1 - 20) [Annihilation Day + 22]

Annihilation: Super-Skrull, Ronan, Annihilation & Heralds have all been spread through Cilvil War, somewhat based on Paul Bourcier's placements, but adapted to the current state of the chronology. I've edited them into the list above, in bold for now, so you can find them easily. Let me know if you see any problems with the placements. Note that as per Paul Bourcier's calendar, "Annihilation Days" must be 12 hours long.

[It appears that these items will have to go into the Decimation to Civil War Chronology. New Avengers 45 (20-23) cannot occur in the immediate aftermath of House of M for reasons discussed over there]

Post by **StrayLamb** » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:43 pm

Frank has pointed out to me a problem with placing Annihilation Prologue simultaneously with House of M..

Frank wrote:Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:00 am About Annihilation there are several problems due to the continuity which prevents to correctly place this cross-over:

1) The placement of Marvel Holiday 2006/3 in the chronology of Mr Fantastic and Annihilus must be wrong because it arrives too late in their continuity for the event to start later.

2) the placement of the Surfer stay on the Hulk planet cannot be moved and arrives well after the end of House of M, and it appears in Annihilation after its stay in planet Hulk… which arrives after!

Conclusion:
In my opinion Annihilation Prologue as it is described can not happen at the same time as the end of House of M 8 because of New Thunderbolts 12 which only comes after House of M. The placement of the Marvel Holiday 2006/3 is placed too far in the lap times for it to be connected with Annihilation. Not to mention the Surfer and his journey on the planet Hulk which precedes its appearance at the end of the Annihilation Prologue.
I have not read the cross-over but from all the times available I think that Annihilation takes place at least after IH3 95.

What do you think ?

Mr Fantastic Annihilus Nova Silver surfer
FF:FOES 2 FF:FOES 2
FF:FOES 3 FF:FOES 3
FF:FOES 4
FF:FOES 5-FB
FF:FOES 5
FF:FOES 6
CU/INVW
FOUR 19
FOUR 20
FOUR 21
SM/HT 5 (1 - 22)
M/KSM 16
M/KSM 17
M/KSM 18
ONS:R 1
HOM 8-BTS ----- Supposed Moment of Annihilation Prologue
NTB 12 NTB 12 --last appareance of Nova
Before Annilation
X2 187/2-BTS
SM&FF 1
SM&FF 2
SM&FF 3
SM&FF 4
MSM2 3-FB
MSM2 3
SENTRY2 2
SENTRY2 3
SOM 5
SOM 6
FOUR 23
FOUR 24
ASM 590-FB
FOUR 25
FOUR 26
FOUR 27
SMF2 7
FF 527
FF 528
FF 529
FF 530
FF 531
FF 532
FFWED
FNSM 2
FOUR 28
FF 533
FF 535-FB
FF 535
FNSM 4
M/M:FFF (4 - 5) M/M:FFF-BTS ?
NA:ILLUM (14 - 22)-FB
IH3 91-FB-VO
IH3 92-FB
ASM 530
NA:ILLUM
FF 536
FF 537
TG2 1
SENSM2 25
SENSM2 26
SENSM2 27
TG2 4-FB
TG2 4
FOUR 29
FF SPEC
FOUR 30-FB
FOUR 30
TG2 6 (1 - 14:2)
M/M:FFF (8 - 28)* M/M:FFF-BTS ?

SM/HT 5 (23:2)
TG2 6 (16 - 22)

Excerpt From
Midnighter chrono*
MK5 4*
MK5 5*
MK5 6*
IH3 93*
BP4 16*
Excerpt From
Midnighter chrono*
CA5 18*
IH3 94*
CA5 19*
IH3 95* ---------- According to MCP last Appearance of silver surfer before Annihilation)
NXTW:AOH 1*
NXTW:AOH 2*
DD2 76*
DD2 77*
DD2 78*
DD2 79*
DD2 80*
CA5 20*
CA5 21*
NXTW:AOH 3*
NXTW:AOH 4

DD2 81
FF:DEATH
SM/HT 5 (23:4 - 23:5)
TG2 7
X2 186-BTS
XSTATIXP:DGIRL 2-BTS
TG2 8 (16:6)-FB
TG2 8 (10:2 - 13:4)-FB
TG2 8 (17 - 18)-FB
TG2 8
M/HOL 2006/3 M/HOL 2006/3 ----(according to MCP last appearance of Annihilus before Annihilation)
ANNI:PRO (1 - 36)-BTS ANNI:PRO
ANNI:NO 1 ANNI:NO 1
ANNI:NO 3 ANNI:NO 2
ANNI:NO 4 ANNI:NO 3
ANNI:NO 4

All of which makes perfect sense. The scene at the end of NA 45 where Veranke is told of the Annihilation of the Skrull Empire cannot be occurring during the House of M event or its immediate aftermath due to other considerations. Placing it later in the scheme may make the conversation regarding the M-Day event seem a little strange, but these are Skrulls, who knows how they think.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:41 am

Now that we know or at least have deduced that for reasons of continuity relating to Nova, the Surfer or Annihilus as well as to Mr Fantastic that Annihilation cannot begin before Incredible Hulk v3 95 (until proven otherwise of course) we can try to rely on the appearance of Mr Fantastic at the end of Annihilation Super Skrull 1 To put away the previous episodes, what do you think?

...
IH3 95 (According to MCP Last Apparareance of Silver Surfer Before Annihilation)
…

M/HOL 2006/3 ( According to MCP Last Apparareance of Annihilus Mr Fantastic Before Annihilation)

C&DP 28
IM4 9
C&DP 29
NXTW:AOH 7
NXTW:AOH 8
IM4 10
IM4 11
IM4 12
AFSY2 17/2
M/HOL 2007
CLAWS 1
CLAWS 2
CLAWS 3
SM: FEVER 1
SM: FEVER 2
SM: FEVER 3
FNSM@ 1/2
CATOW:TSO
W&BCAT:CLAWSII 1
W&BCAT:CLAWSII 2
W&BCAT:CLAWSII 3
New Avengers: Illuminati 1-5
New Avengers: Illuminati Special 1 (25-33)
Amazing Spider-Man 532 (2-3)-FB

Annihilation: Silver Surfer 4 (21 - 24)

Annihilation: Super Skrull 1 (1 - 10)

Civil War 1 (1-12) ~ Wolverine 42 (1-11:4)
Amazing Spider-Man 532 (4-12)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 531 (21-22)
Wolverine 42 (13-15)
Civil War 1 (13-19:4)
Civil War 1 (19:5-20) ~ Wolverine 42 (16:1-16:3)
Wolverine 42 (16:4-19)
Civil War 1 (21-31)
Civil War: Frontline 1/1
Civil War 1 (32-33)

Annihilation: Super Skrull 1 (11 - 23) (According to MCP Appearance of Mr Fantastic)*

...

Post by **StrayLamb** » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:21 pm

Frank wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:41 am Now that we know or at least have deduced that for reasons of continuity relating to Nova, the Surfer or Annihilus as well as to Mr Fantastic that Annihilation cannot begin before Incredible Hulk v3 95 (until proven otherwise of course) we can try to rely on the appearance of Mr Fantastic at the end of Annihilation Super Skrull 1 To put away the previous episodes, what do you think?

That's pretty much my thinking. I've already placed the issues you mention here into Civil War Chronology. The Annihilation Prologue and earlier Surfer issues should be placed shortly before Civil War, in The Other to Civil War Chronology.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:37 pm

hi straylamb! I think this time I found the solution to the problem: I simply used Paul Bourcier's calendar

and I think it works pretty well. I even found the location for the passage of hawkeye with scarlet witch and the flashback with Veranke

What do you think?DECIMATION

[...]

FNSM 1 <--- The Other
NTB 15
NTB 16
XF3 5
M/KSM 19
ASM 525
FNSM 2
FOUR 28
DDV.P 1
XF3 6
M/KSM 20
NTB 17
DDV.P 2
DDV.P 3
ASM 526
FNSM 3
M/KSM 21
FF 533
FF 534
FF 535
DDV.P 4
DDV.P 5
DDV.P 6
ASM 527
FNSM 4
M/KSM 22
ASM 528
BP4 10
BP4 11
FNSM 5
BP4 12
BP4 13
UX 469
UX 470
UX 471
NXCAL 6
NXCAL 7
GR5 1
GR5 2
GR5 3
GR5 4
GR5 5
GR5 6
ARES 1
BP4 14
BP4 15
ARES 2
ARES 3
ARES 4
SBL&FORTUNE 1
SBL&FORTUNE 2
UX 472
UX 473
UX 474
IH3 88
SBL&FORTUNE 3
W3 41
UX@2 1
IHEARTM/:MI /2
IH3 89
IH3 90
IH3 91
ASM 529
NA:ILLUM
ASM 530
FF 536
FF 537
ASM 531
SBL&FORTUNE 4
IHEARTM/:MI
SM&ARANA:HR
C&DP 25
SENSM2 23
NTB 18
TB 100
TG2 1
C&DP 26
C&DP 27
TB 101
SENSM2 24
SENSM2 25
SENSM2 26
SENSM2 27
DOD 1
TG2 2
DOD 2
X:AV.D 1
X:AV.D 2
X:AV.D 3
X:AV.D 4
TG2 3
DOD3
BULL:PG 1
BULL:PG 2
TG2 4
FNSM 6
FNSM 7
FNSM 8
FNSM 9
FNSM 10
PV.BULL 1
PV.BULL 2
PV.BULL 3
PV.BULL 4 (1 - 4)
DOD 4
SSM 1000
FOUR 29
X2 189/2
SMU3 12/2
PV.BULL 4 (5 - 20)
PV.BULL 5
DOD 5
DOD 6
FF SPEC
MK5 1
MK5 2
FOUR 30
TG2 5
MK5 3
IH3 92
TG2 6
M/M:FFF
MK5 4
MK5 5
MK5 6
IH3 93
BP4 16
CA5 18
IH3 94
CA5 19
GSH2 1/2
IH3 95
IH3 96
IH3 97
IH3 98
IH3 99
IH3 100
IH3 101
IH3 102
IH3 103
IH3 104
IH3 105 (1 - 18)
ANNIHILATION PROLOGUE #1 (1)
ANNIHILATION: PROLOGUE #1 (2-8)
NXTW:AOH 1
NXTW:AOH 2
DD2 76
DD2 77
DD2 78
DD2 79
DD2 80
CA5 20
CA5 21
NXTW:AOH 3
NXTW:AOH 4
ANNIHILATION: PROLOGUE #1 (9-35)
ANNIHILATION: SILVER SURFER #1 - FB
DD2 81
GSH2 1/2
AFSY2 16/2
P:BV
FF: DEATH
IHEARTM/:WOR
IHEARTM/:OL
X2 180
X2 181
X2 185/2
TG2 7
X2 182
X2 182/2
X2 183/2
X2 183
X2 184/2
X2 184
X2 185
X2 186
X2 186/2
RUN2 12
IM:INEV 1
SH2 6
X/RUN
RUN2 13
M/TU3 21
WT 1
IM:INEV 2
WT 2
WT 3
RUN2 14
DS:OATH 1
DS:OATH 2
DS:OATH 3
DS:OATH 4
DS:OATH 5
RUN2 15
RUN2 16
RUN2 17
RUN2 18
IM:INEV 3
IM:INEV 4
WT 4
IM:INEV 5
IM:INEV 6
X2 187
RUN2 19
RUN2 20
RUN2 21
XSTATIXP:DGIRL 1
X:DG 1
X:DG 2
X:DG 3
X:DG 4
X:DG 5
X:DG 6
XSTATIXP:DGIRL 2
NA 16
NA 17
NA 18
NA 19
NA 20
XSTATIXP:DGIRL 3
XSTATIXP:DGIRL 4
XSTATIXP:DGIRL 5
NA@ 1
SH2 7
M/TU3 22
M/TU3 23
M/TU3 23/2
M/TU3 24
M/TU3 24/2
M/TU3 25
CA 616/4
XF3 7
UJ2 1
UJ2 2
UJ2 3
UJ2 4
WT 5
WT 6
DD2 82
TG2 8
NXTW:AOH 5
NXTW:AOH 6
ANNIHILATION: NOVA #1-4 ANNIHILATION: PROLOGUE #1 (36-37)
IRRANT 5
IM4 7
IM4 8
M/HOL 2006/3
ANNIHILATION: PROLOGUE #1 (38-42) (New Avengers 45 Pages-20-26)
C&DP 28
IM4 9
C&DP 29
ANNIHILATION: SILVER SURFER #1
NXTW:AOH 7
NXTW:AOH 8
ANNIHILATION: SILVER SURFER #2
ANNIHILATION: SILVER SURFER #3 (1-13)
ANNIHILATION: SILVER SURFER #3 (14-23)
ANNIHILATION: SILVER SURFER #4 (1-20)
ANNIHILATION: RONAN #1 - FB
IM4 10
IM4 11
IM4 12
AFSY2 17/2
NEW AVENGERS #26 (10-19)
M/HOL 2007
NEW AVENGERS #26 (20-22)

CLAWS 1
CLAWS 2
CLAWS 3
SM: FEVER 1
SM: FEVER 2
SM: FEVER 3
FNSM@ 1/2
CATOW:TSO
W&BCAT:CLAWSII 1
W&BCAT:CLAWSII 2
W&BCAT:CLAWSII 3
New Avengers: Illuminati 1-5
New Avengers: Illuminati Special 1 (25-33)
Amazing Spider-Man 532 (2-3)-FB
Annihilation: Silver Surfer 4 (21 - 24)
Annihilation: Super Skrull 1 (1 - 10)
Civil War 1 (1-12) ~ Wolverine 42 (1-11:4)
Amazing Spider-Man 532 (4-12)-FB
Amazing Spider-Man 531 (21-22)
Wolverine 42 (13-15)
Civil War 1 (13-19:4)
Civil War 1 (19:5-20) ~ Wolverine 42 (16:1-16:3)
Wolverine 42 (16:4-19)
Civil War 1 (21-31)
Civil War: Frontline 1/1
Civil War 1 (32-33)
Annihilation: Super Skrull 1 (11 - 23)
Thunderbolts 102
Annihilation: Super Skrull 2 (1 - 7)
Marvel 2009 Holiday Spectacular /3 (1)
Daredevil 83-85
New Avengers 21
She-Hulk 8
Annihilation: Super Skrull 2 (8 - 25)
...

Post by **StrayLamb** » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:40 pm

Nice. Let's go with that for now.

Post by **michel** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:52 pm

Frank wrote: ↑Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:37 pm hi straylamb! I think this time I found the solution to the problem: I simply used Paul Bourcier's calendar and I think it works pretty well. I even found the location for the passage of hawkeye with scarlet witch and the flashback with Veranke What do you think?

...
IM4 7
IM4 8
M/HOL 2006/3
ANNIHILATION: PROLOGUE #1 (38-42)
(New Avengers 45 Pages-20-26)
C&DP 28
IM4 9
C&DP 29
ANNIHILATION: SILVER SURFER #1
NXTW:AOH 7
NXTW:AOH 8
ANNIHILATION: SILVER SURFER #2
ANNIHILATION: SILVER SURFER #3 (1-13)
ANNIHILATION: SILVER SURFER #3 (14-23)
ANNIHILATION: SILVER SURFER #4 (1-20)
ANNIHILATION: RONAN #1 - FB
IM4 10
IM4 11
IM4 12
...

It doesn't work so well for M/HOL 2006/3, placed just before ANNI:PRO (38 - 42) at Annihilation Day + 15. It seems very doubtful that Annihilus would leave the Wave to watch sitcoms and have a beer with the Thing ^^
Could this story be placed around M/HOL 2005 ? It's a bit after Avengers : Finale, so it would leave some time for Annihilus to make his plans.

Post by **StrayLamb** » Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:39 pm

I'm not sure where Christmas should fall around this period, but i have this story placed immediately before Annihilation Prologue. Looking at it again, the uniforms that Reed and Sue are wearing are unlike anything i can find elsewhere, but seem most similar to the uniforms they wore back in 1962. Otherwise, the nearest i can find are those worn circa 2002, with the black collars that extended out towards the shoulders, and the white 4 beneath, so maybe this should be placed back there somewhere?

Post by **michel** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:47 am

The costumes in M/HOL 2006/3 are not so different from those in the issues nearby, the black collar is just larger, we can give it to artistic licence.

But I've found another problem with Quasar : he appears, alive, in SH2 7. He dies then (temporarily ^^) in ANNI:NO 4, Annihilation Day + 11.
That is putting Veranke's vision in NA 45 (19:2 - 23), at Annihilation Day + 15, after SH2 7. That's currently not the case, as seen with Criti Noll :

YELLOWJACKET IMPOSTER/CRITI NOLL
...
HOM 8-VO
NA 45 (20 - 23)
M/HOL 2005/2
BEYOND 1
BEYOND 2
BEYOND 3
BEYOND 4
BEYOND 5
BEYOND 6
FNSM 2
NTB 14-FB
NTB 13-FB
NTB 14
FNSM 4
MA 14-FB
SH2 7
TG2 8-FB
TG2 8
...

I'll suggest a new placement later, I still have to work on this.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:48 am

It doesn't work so well for M/HOL 2006/3, placed just before ANNI:PRO (38 - 42) at Annihilation Day + 15. It seems very doubtful that Annihilus would leave the Wave to watch sitcoms and have a beer with the Thing ^^

for me it has always been in my mind a temporary placement ^^ ....And i was thinking the same thing about annihilius

definitely something go wrong with the placement of that christmas story

Marvel Chronology Project

Placement of Annihilation

re: CIVIL WAR CHRONOLOGY

Re: CIVIL WAR CHRONOLOGY

Re: CIVIL WAR CHRONOLOGY

Placement of Annihilation

Re: Placement of Annihilation

Re: Placement of Annihilation

Re: Placement of Annihilation

Re: Placement of Annihilation

Re: Placement of Annihilation

Re: Placement of Annihilation

Re: Placement of Annihilation

Re: Placement of Annihilation