Some Stories Missing from MCP

The ongoing effort to juggle all the books that need to be entered into the Project

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vanhornluke
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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:16 pm

I would prefer to maintain what's said in all sources, and so not rule out what's in the handbooks unless there's an explicit statement saying so from an official source. After all, if there were a conflict between an earlier comic story and a later comic story, we'd try to maintain both if we can, and only rule out the earlier one if necessary. The handbooks are just as much legitimate sources of info as comic stories. But I won't argue about this.

Here are some further stories still missing from MCP, again referenced in the handbooks or else feature characters who we know are 616:

The Amazing Spider-Man: Chaos in Calgary #4
The Amazing Spider-Man: Hit and Run #3
The Amazing Spider-Man: Skating on Thin Ice #1
The Amazing Spider-Man: Skating on Thin Ice: Double Trouble #2
The Avengers Battle the Earth-Wrecker (novel)
Avengers Collectors' Edition #1
Cat's-Paw (rpg supplement)
Countdown to Mystery #8b (Elf with a Gun)
Cry of the Beast (novel)
Daredevil vs. Vapora #1
Daredevil: The Cutting Edge (novel)
Devil & Capitan America: Doppia Morte
Epic Anthology #1
Fantastic Four: Countdown to Chaos (novel)
Fantastic Four: Redemption of the Silver Surfer (novel)
Fantastic Four: War Zone (novel)
Fantastic Four: What Lies Between (novel)
Generation X: Crossroads (novel)
Haunt of Horror: Lovecraft #1
Haunted Horseman #1f (Rex Fury)
Hero #1-6
Heroes Return (cybercomic)
Hulk: Pantheon Raid #3
The Incredible Hulk: Lost in Time (children's book)
The Life of Christ #1
The Life of Christ: The Easter Story
L'Uomo Ragno: Il Segreto Del Vetro; translated in UK as Spider-Man in Venice: The Secret of the Glass
The Man Who Stole Tomorrow (novel)
Marvel Heroes #15-16
Marvel Illustrated: The Man in the Iron Mask #1-6
Marvel Vision #1-30 (in-universe Daily Bugle stories)
Marvel Year-in-Review '92 ("Losers!")
Miss Fury: Sensational Sundays: 1941-1944
Miss Fury: Sensational Sundays: 1944-1949
Murdermoon (novel)
Real Heroes #1-4
Return of the Asthma Monster #1
Silver Surfer: Break Out #1
Special-Zembla #152-153
Spider-Man Battles the Myth Monster #1
Spider-Man: Bug Stops Here #1a
Spider-Man: The Darkest Hours (novel)
Spider-Man: Down These Mean Streets (novel)
Spider-Man: Sinister Six (novel trilogy)
Spider-Man: When Heroes Clash #2
Stalker from the Stars (novel)
Superhelden Agenda '90-'91 (contains original Spider-Man story, so I'm told)
Time Trap (rpg supplement)
Top Ten #8
The Ultimate Hulk (short story anthology, "A Quiet Normal Life")
Ultimate Silver Surfer (short story anthology, "The Broken Land")
Ultimate Super-Villains (short story anthology, "Child's Play," "Private Exhibition")
Universal Studios Islands of Adventure Under Siege #1
Within Our Reach (Spider-Man story)
Wolverine: The Nuke Hunters #4
The X-Men and Captain Universe: Sleeping Giants #1
The X-Men Premium Edition #1
X-Men: Chaos Engine Trilogy (novels)
X-Men: Shadows of the Past (novel)
X-Men: Siege and Destroy #5
X-Men: Soul Killer (novel)
The X-Men: Time Gliders #1-4

More stories not clearly referenced in anything official (to my knowledge), but I don't see any good reason to not include them:
Justice, Inc. #6 (Heinz Kruger)
The Shadow and Doc Savage #1-2 (Abraham Erskine)

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by Col_Fury » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:26 pm

vanhornluke wrote:The handbooks are just as much legitimate sources of info as comic stories.
Of course they are! They're Marvel products overseen and approved by Marvel editorial. There's no question there.

But then, someone would probably expect me to say that, since I'm one of the handbook (and Index, and Guidebook) writers (it's no secret; my name's in the credits). But hey, I've felt that way since before I got that gig. :wink:

Keep up the good work, vanhornluke! You're doing great. :)
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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by Somebody » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:29 pm

The stories themselves are (primary) sources. Handbook/etc entries are resources, or secondary sources. If a story contradicts the Handbook, the Handbook is misinformed (i.e., wrong). If the Handbook directly contradicts a story, it's either a retcon or wrong.

(Non-Official Marvel sources, like a writer's post-facto clarification, are tertiary sources at best, or completely irrelevant at worst)

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:32 pm

Oops, I forgot to include this in my last post:

Marvel Illustrated: The Three Musketeers #1-6

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by zuckyd1 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:03 pm

Col_Fury wrote:Thanks to Spider-verse, we have a reality where Spider-Man and the other heroes actually defeated villains with Twinkies. Similar events happened on Earth-616, just without the sponge cake business.
Well according to Man Mountain Marko's handbook entry, in his particular case Hostess cupcakes actually were involved. :lol:

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by loki » Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:34 pm

Col_Fury wrote:All of those handbook entries were written before the Spider-verse crossover was published, of course. New evidence always shines new light on things. :)

The Index was a little more clear on the Hostess matter than the handbooks (because we had the ability to be). Yes, the Index provided chronologies for some of the Hostess ads, but with the disclaimer that only if they're canon to Earth-616, that's where they (or similar events) would go. The Index was also written before Spider-verse came out.

Also, keep in mind that while Tom Brevoort says the MARVEL: THE END mini is non-canon, the handbooks refer to it anyway. They're not actually referring to that mini, but rather largely similar events to what was seen in that mini (and of course, there's some reality out there where the events of MARVEL: THE END actually happened as shown in that mini; it's Earth-4321). Now that we have Spider-verse showing a universe where the Hostess ads happened as shown, we can assume the same thing as with The End mini; the handbooks are referring to largely similar events shown in the Hostess ads, if not the actual events (especially in light of Spider-verse).

Thanks to Spider-verse, we have a reality where Spider-Man and the other heroes actually defeated villains with Twinkies. Similar events happened on Earth-616, just without the sponge cake business. Of course, that's just my interpretation.
Yep. The Handbooks tended to confirm the existence of Hostess characters who had been seen in 616, but the exact wording in the index was:

Between 1975 and 1982, Hostess ran comic book ads with Marvel (and other) characters promoting their snacks. While thwarting villainy with baked confectionary might seem to suggest these ads are unlikely to be part of regular Marvel (Earth-616) continuity, several antagonists created for the ads reappeared in 616 stories, raising the possibility that events similar to the ones depicted, presumably minus the tasty Hostess cake element, could have taken place in 616. Hence bonus sidebars covering XX’s Hostess adventures are included here; character chronologies are included, identifying when these adventures would have taken place for Thor and his cast, if said events (or similar) actually happened.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:20 pm

I was referring to the handbook references, not to the indices. But like I said, I don't want to argue about it.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:11 pm

I just realized I forgot to include the following Star Comics series, which have been referenced in the handbooks as 616:

Planet Terry
Royal Roy
Top Dog
Wally the Wizard

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by Russ Chappell » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:45 pm

vanhornluke wrote:I just realized I forgot to include the following Star Comics series,
Um...no you didn't. You listed them on June 2.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:52 pm

Oops. I had in my notes that I had planned to list them with that last batch of issues rather than the earlier bunch, so I didn't look at that earlier chunk of stories. :oops:

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by Lonewolf36 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:04 am

vanhornluke wrote:I just realized I forgot to include the following Star Comics series, which have been referenced in the handbooks as 616:

Planet Terry
Royal Roy
Top Dog
Wally the Wizard
Planet Terry is no longer just a handbook reference he has been in the last few issues of Drax.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by Col_Fury » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:32 am

To be fair, none of them were "just" a handbook reference; the Star Comics characters were nabbed by Mojo and met the X-Babies in a comic a few years back.

I am shocked to hear that Planet Terry is showing up currently in Drax, though!
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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:05 pm

Cool, I hadn't heard that Planet Terry had shown up recently. Regarding the X-Babies storyline, I'm aware of it, but unless I just didn't understand the story, it wasn't entirely clear if it established that the earlier Star Comics stories were 616 or if they were just in-universe fictions. The handbooks have referred to them as 616, though, so that's what I took to be clearer confirmation of their 616 status.

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Re: Some Stories Missing from MCP

Post by vanhornluke » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:09 pm

Another set of stories that should be added to the list of missing issues for MCP:

Heathcliff #1-54
Heathcliff Annual #1
Heathcliff's Funhouse #1-10
Star Comics Magazine #13 (just the story "A Shaking Gap!")

Heathcliff meets Top Dog in an issue of Top Dog, and there's no indication of interdimensional travel, so that seems pretty clear evidence that he's a 616 character. The fact that he's an intelligent funny animal character shouldn't be a problem, since so is Top Dog, and he's clearly 616.

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